Of Men and Dragons

[Mjollnir]

Thanks for the good reads Hiir and Moose and thoughts on them from the others here.

I never got to do any of this in 1.0, so it's all very interesting!

[HiirNoivl]

Thanks Anonymoose!

Of course, that story just isn't finished. Morys is being pulled to Ishgard despite the elementals efforts to seal him, so the dragon may be becoming stronger than even the elementals. If that's the case, the elementals should destroy Amberscale, but they don't. Instead they insist that he "Wait". The elementals have something in mind. But I guess we can't find out now.

I have no clue about Damielliot's mysterious affliction or what in tarnation that Echo was supposed to be. His fainting while telling the tale, was their really a connection? Was he really kidnapped? How'd he get back home? We never took him back to his parents, the echo ends as soon as Damielliot starts to wake. How is applying the salve in the Echo applicable to his current condition?

Minfilia: Ah, but enough talk of the knowledge we lack. Let me tell you of what we do know.

Fade to White

Minfilia: The Echo allows you to breach the wall of a person's soul, and hear the resonations of their past. You will be there in their memories, seeing things as they saw them. You may even interact with that which lies therein. However, the past is like a stone tablet. You cannot uncarve what is already written.

Minfilia: As an unexpected side-effect of the gift, it seems the ability to reach into the soul of another also allows some of us to understand their words without having to comprehend the sounds they utter. In short, the Echo has granted these fortunate souls mastery of every language existing on Hydaelyn.

Minfilia: Unfortunately, that is the sum of our understanding of this gift from the gods... Why, we are not even sure the gift is from the Twelve. It is certainly true that many of those who hear the Echo also claim to have witnessed starshowers, but who is to say that even the starshowers are sent by them?


* * * *

There is no reason to assume that seeing the past and talking in different languages is the only abilities the echo gives. And Minfilia seems to understand that it's not.

[Yrusama]

You all have me curious now. Forgive me if I make any mistakes in this, as I am tired.

For one thing, how would anyone, let alone Penelope or Damiellot, know about the story if it happened to Morys, a boy who lost all memory of it immediately after it happened? Who would be the first teller of the story? A nameless witness? The elementals? If a tree falls in the Twelveswood...

It's possible that Damiellot gained knowledge of the story from an Echo of Morys' locked memories (not necessarily through his own ability, but a second-hand retelling from an Echo-bearer...another adventurer?), but it won't do to plant events that are never mentioned as a means of explanation.

Also, why should our ability to enter Damiellot's dream lead to any confusion about the Echo? The Echo has always been form of telepathy. Probing a person's memories just happens to be a function of telepathy (many thoughts in the present are derived from memories of the past) just as omnilinguality (new word!) and the ability to project oneself into another's dreams are functions of telepathy. What we have here is little more than a case of the latter: Damiellot gets stuck in a dream derived from a bedtime story, and you pop in to snap him out of it.

I'll admit there are other cases where the Echo might draw us more literally into the past, but assuming this in Damiellot's case is like calling Sleipnir a zebra in disguise. Connecting the dragon in the story to Amberscale Rock leads to a beautifully tragic story, but it's difficult to solidify any connection without any Voidsent confirmations. So far I have seen nothing new about Amberscale, so we'll have to wait until Phase 4 or the launch version to know any more about it. (surely there's a reason they left it in)

/-(f O)f-\ <--- attempt at a Fernehalwes emoticon.

[Anonymoose]

Just in case anybody didn't see the resemblance, I made an image.

Makes you wonder, though... weren't the tonberry statues at the Gelemorran Ruins made of the same stuff? Am I wrong about the sealing of the dragon or did the elementals get sick of the tonberries' crap too!? O.O

Who would be the first teller of the story? A nameless witness? The elementals? If a tree falls in the Twelveswood...

If I'm onto anything, the legend ends after the boy and the dragon take to the skies, so any of the surviving brigands could have told the story, as could any witnesses provided there were any.

Also, why should our ability to enter Damiellot's dream lead to any confusion about the Echo? The Echo has always been form of telepathy. <snip> What we have here is little more than a case of the latter: Damiellot gets stuck in a dream derived from a bedtime story, and you pop in to snap him out of it.

Damielliot's story arc has been interpreted a bunch of different ways at different times, so it'll be nice to see this one cleared up someday. The big question mark is just what happened - if we entered an imagined, non-literal past or a dream, why is this the only echo in which we do so? If we entered the past and changed it somehow, why is this the only echo in which we (are proved to have) done so? Either way we seem to be treading on new ground and don't really know what to make of it.

/-(f O)f-\

We know Ferne and his enthusiasm for the story, so hopefully we'll have some answers once the game is released and he's back to having small chunks of downtime here and there between patches. I just hope he's still willing to delve into V1 matters as we move into the future. For a while, I'd really like to focus my Loremonger efforts on V1 and truly close the books on its questions, cataloging the history, so to speak; tying up the lose ends and giving background for what answers find their way into ARR. After the past is wrapped up, I'll move into the future, seeing as ARR will be a little more permanent.

In the meantime, I'm sure the others will get a jump on loremongering in the future. Looks like some are already getting started ^^

[HiirNoivl]

For one thing, how would anyone, let alone Penelope or Damiellot, know about the story if it happened to Morys, a boy who lost all memory of it immediately after it happened? Who would be the first teller of the story? A nameless witness? The elementals? If a tree falls in the Twelveswood...

He didn't lose his memories immediately after his contact with the dragon. We don't exactly know how long he was with that dragon. But let's not think that this is something no one could have witnessed.

The kids said that it was a dragon so big that all of Eorzea blew when it flapped it's mighty wings.

Unfading Scars

Alberic: Alas, dragons are no less real than you and I, with Nidhogg perhaps the most real of all. In the course of its history, Ishgard has suffered under the creature on eight separate occasions. Each time the great wyrm rouses, the blood of countless Ishgardians is spilled.

Alberic: Let us revisit the past once more, <Name>. The time is fifteen summers past, and the place Dravania.

Alberic: After a century of slumber, Nidhogg awakened once more to resume his reign of terror. Entire villages were razed to the ground, their inhabitants reduced to ash.

Alberic: Sensing the great wyrm's unbridled rage others of his kind began to rouse, and in such numbers as to blot out the sun with their wings. A deep, foreboding darkness swept over Ishgard.

* * * * * * * *

The Boy and the Dragon Gay tale could have gotten started 15 years ago. That would be plenty of time for it to be banned and spread around by Ishgardians and people who would have perhaps even seen the kid/known his parents. How would Damielliot have heard it? I'm not sure, but it's not out of the question that he would have.

Ingram himself may have intimate knowledge of Morys's past, not to mention others who know he's a wildling in the Conjurer's guild.

[Catapult]

I'm looking at ARR content in the context of shining light on v1.0 questions. I'll see if I can find any hints in the early alchemist quests (the conjurer quests held no clues).

You already know my opinion on the Echo's ability to alter history.

Now, speaking more broadly, we can't preclude other dragons being involved when Damielliot mentions dragons in his fevered delerium. Witnessing Midgardsomr and the Battle of Silvertear Skies comes to mind.

[Yrusama]

I really was tired last night. ^^;

I realized this a little bit ago after actually watching the ALC cutscene. The dragon and boy just fly off, not in any particular direction. The boy was incapacitated by the fall and would have needed a while to heal. No telling if he met other people during that time.

Assuming it's true, this clears up a lot of Morys' past, but not all of it. What did the dragon or Morys do to the Twelveswood to anger the Elementals? We missed whatever happened before the Elementals sealed the dragon in rock. It's assumed the dragon attacked them, but why? Was the dragon defending Morys? If so, what did Morys do to anger the elementals? The elementals don't actively attack things that haven't damaged the forest, do they? (Mind you, they attack adventurers quite frequently, but I suspect this is because of our assumed wanton slaughter of things in the Twelveswood without the Hearers' permission. The game was not programmed with a grudge mechanic, like the Fomors in XI. Either that, or the aggressive ones are simply corrupt.)

I hope we get to learn more about Amberscale Rock in ARR. It's possible they only included it to avoid erasing a rather interesting landmark, but I'd like to think they'll make use of it at some point. I also hope we get to meet Brother Morys again.

[radhaz]

You lore guys continue to deliver good reading material. Thanks!

[Catapult]

What if the elementals took Morys to prevent him from engaging with the dragon?

If the elementals deemed the dragon a threat that they could only contain, not destroy, they would need to also contain the boy loyal to it.

[HiirNoivl]

What if the elementals took Morys to prevent him from engaging with the dragon?

If the elementals deemed the dragon a threat that they could only contain, not destroy, they would need to also contain the boy loyal to it.

I doubt the elementals cared much about the kid. They are sentient beings with feelings, but they behave much like white blood cells in the body when they get annoyed. They don't care who's innocent or guilty or what motives they have. They just want to stop whatever is hurting the woods. The kid was with the dragon when all the commotion started, so they were both taken.

It kinda reminds me of the cutscene where a bunch of woodwailers got taken even though they were the ones trying to help when the imperials started messing around. In the Archer quest, The Foreboding Forest, the Ishgardian unit was terrified of even executing heretics for fear of pissing off the elementals.