Dungeons--> Open world NMs.

[Zkieve]

I'm all for dungeons, challenge and all, but I'm definitely against tiered gear.

Effect of tiered gear:
Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1 -> BORED TO DEATH. Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 1, -> YAY EVERYONE HAS THE GEAR! -> Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, -> BORED TO DEATH. Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 2.... And so forth.

Effect of non tiered gear:
Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 3, Doing Dungeon 4, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 3, Doing Dungeon 4, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 3, Doing Dungeon 4, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 3, Doing Dungeon 4, Doing Dungeon 1, Doing Dungeon 2, Doing Dungeon 3, Doing Dungeon 4.... aaaaah variety...

The first option is extremely conductive to short-term boredom. The second option gives more variety and keeps boredom at bay, as long as the drops of one dugeon don't make the others obsolete.
The first option also isn't an efficent way of adding content in a game that lacks it.

Finally, tiered dungeons encourage closed circles too much, as new players have trouble getting involved with more veteran players that are already on advanced dungeons from which they are artificially excluded.

How is that diferent from NMs tought? and it depends on "how " they do it , does not have to be so lineal.

There are millions of ways to introduce this, i really loved "helping " my buddies with the low tiered places so they could join me later on by example in almost all games i played.

[Elexia]

Keep it simple like FFXI.

Einherjar =

Tier 1 - Complete them, get the feathers
Tier 2 - Complete them, get the feathers
Tier 3 - Complete them, get the feathers
Odin's Chamber - Requires all 9 feathers.

This didn't create the clique like mentality that didn't already exist (Guild/linkshell for example), especially considering you have to repeat said tiers in order to fight Odin again.

This is why I'm weary about Yoshida mentioning dungeons being like the western MMO style.

[Zkieve]

Keep it simple like FFXI.

Einherjar =

Tier 1 - Complete them, get the feathers
Tier 2 - Complete them, get the feathers
Tier 3 - Complete them, get the feathers
Odin's Chamber - Requires all 9 feathers.

This didn't create the clique like mentality that didn't already exist (Guild/linkshell for example), especially considering you have to repeat said tiers in order to fight Odin again.

This is why I'm weary about Yoshida mentioning dungeons being like the western MMO style.

personally as long as is not "limited " to 1 method of access/avaliability and there are plenty of "options" , it should be okay i think.

Im not to kin of einherjar mechanics personally.

[Abriael]

How is that diferent from NMs tought? and it depends on "how " the do it , does not have to be so lineal.

NMs are by definition rather shallow content. No matter how great the fight. It's still a "go there, kill the mob". That's why I definitely prefer dungeon, especially if story-based.

The only way I would be favorable to tiered dungeons would be by the completion of each dungeon dropping a "key" to everyone that participated (the Age of Conan way), and having other rewards (in the form of gear) that isn't made obsolete by the following dungeons.

That way the possibility of variating one's dungeon routine grow fast enough to avoid boredom, and "gearing" newer players to bring them up to par with the rest of the group/linkshell is relatively painless and still offers rewards to more veteran players that are past the first dungeons.

TL/DR: Make it a progression with the key, but encourage going back with the loot.
That way the effect of every dungeon on the availability of content is maximized.
Variation -> PROFIT!

[Elexia]

NMs are by definition rather shallow content. No matter how great the fight. It's still a "go there, kill the mob". That's why I definitely prefer dungeon, especially if story-based.

The only way I would be favorable to tiered dungeons would be by the completion of each dungeon dropping a "key" to everyone that participated (the Age of Conan way), and having other rewards (in the form of gear) that isn't made obsolete by the following dungeons.

That way the possibility of variating one's dungeon routine grow fast enough to avoid boredom, and "gearing" newer players to bring them up to par with the rest of the group/linkshell is relatively painless and still offers rewards to more veteran players that are past the first dungeons.

TL/DR: Make it a progression with the key, but encourage going back with the loot.
That way the effect of every dungeon on the availability of content is maximized.
Variation -> PROFIT!

Basically like a lot of XI's end-game systems, only problem there was low drop rate or low Spawn percentage rate like the motherfu- (won't finish this sentence)

Salvage.

[Zkieve]

NMs are by definition rather shallow content. No matter how great the fight. It's still a "go there, kill the mob". That's why I definitely prefer dungeon, especially if story-based.

The only way I would be favorable to tiered dungeons would be by the completion of each dungeon dropping a "key" to everyone that participated (the Age of Conan way), and having other rewards (in the form of gear) that isn't made obsolete by the following dungeons.

That way the possibility of variating one's dungeon routine grow fast enough to avoid boredom, and "gearing" newer players to bring them up to par with the rest of the group/linkshell is relatively painless and still offers rewards to more veteran players that are past the first dungeons.

TL/DR: Make it a progression with the key, but encourage going back with the loot.
That way the effect of every dungeon on the availability of content is maximized.
Variation -> PROFIT!

Yea that would be great.
I dont think "tiered" dungeons in ffxi were to good for mid leve players, it was almost all end game wise, apart from some capped missions.(dont think BCNMs are tired dungeons/instances).

I seen before that after a certain level you "need " to go back to the "lower" leves dungeons to collect items , so you can go help--> while collecting your items.

This way the community its brought together.This is another aspect i didnt put on OP, but dungeons will bring the world back alive, especially if they are the "leve capped" or "exp(sp) progression" type of dungeons.

[Chezen]

In response to the OP post, not everyone lives for dungeons. I think they should have them of course, but I like the open world stuff.

I sincerely hope this game doesn't become dungeon-based heavy and leaves the open world behind like some other mmos.

[Zkieve]

In response to the OP post, not everyone lives for dungeons. I think they should have them of course, but I like the open world stuff.

I sincerely hope this game doesn't become dungeon-based heavy and leaves the open world behind like some other mmos.

I understand but atm , this game needs them desperately.With how heavy the specs are on most machines the only way to make massive engaging battles is in instances, so personally would sacrifice some " world immersion" for dungeons in a heart beat.

Not to mention dungeons is the end line to the casual vs hardcore argument.

I dont want ffxi type of dungeos , i would rather have more variated dungeons were you can actually progress (sp wise/exp)while clearing it.Right now we are limited to leve quest grind /grind.You can grind , but i find out that "leveling up" while doing dungeons is a lot of fun.Not like leveling is hard, but i just think it would be a lot more enjoyable.

[Chezen]

Right now we are limited to leve quest grind /grind.You can grind , but i find out that "leveling up" while doing dungeons is a lot of fun.Not like leveling is hard, but i just think it would be a lot more enjoyable.

I'm all for variety, as much as the devs and engines can handle, and I'm aware of how much of a fan base there is to dungeons. I enjoy them sometimes myself.

I just wanted to point out that while that might be your focal point for enjoyment, it's not necessarily everyone's. As such, I don't think there's necesarily one point of the game more important than the other, other than the steps necessary to ensure the changes can be made as smoothly and quickly as possible.

Anyway, it's just my 2 cents.

[Lerris]

So basically your saying its okay for them 1 or 2 years to add fun content because they dont have time ?.
Okay lol, i hope they are a bit smarter than that, for the sake of the game.Dungeons should be implemented right after they are done with battle changes , that should be priority #1 right now.Followed by dungeons.

Combat is not fun.
Until combat is fun, dungeons will not be fun.

Where is your 1 or 2 years coming from?