[Loremonger] 1.X Lominsan Story Arc

[Mjollnir]

On the Astalicia:

Tethered to a solitary pier, far from the watchful eyes of the Knights of the Barracuda, rests a towering galleon registered with Mealvaan's Gate as a trade vessel hailing from foreign waters. The fact that is, in actuality, a battle-scarred warship captained by the undisputed lord of the region's underworld, One-Eyed Hyllfyr, is one the city-state's worst kept secrets.

Source: Archive of the Official Final Fantasy XIV website, 20th May 2010

A couple of key points here. "One-Eyed Hyllfyr"; this is not the only time we hear about a captain with one eye.

You mean pirate ship. I locked up the crew for questioning the moment they dropped anchor in the bay. We've been trying to extract a confession from that one-eyed captain of theirs, but so far neither he nor any of his crew seem susceptible to the standard forms of coercion.

Source: Treasures of the Main

So ten years ago, Sthalmann tells H'naanza he had been trying to ascertain where Seal Rock had come from for the past few months, but matters in Limsa had stopped him from going there. These matters are "the stowaways on that passenger ship". H'naanza then goes on to state that "if it was transporting more than simply passengers...that would perhaps go some way to explaining the appearance of the sea serpent..."

This, to me, is stating that this galleon registered as a "trade vessel from foreign waters", ie unknown origin sailed into Limsa Lominsa one night with 'stowaways' and perhaps something else on board that had attracted the attention of the Sea Serpent. The one-eyed captain and crew were arrested for questioning.

The stowaways and the 'perhaps something else' aren't referred to again. This is the only sighting of the Sea Serpent since times of legend, so the Echo in Shapeless Melody is the same event. There is a one-eyed Roegadyn in that scene, who is clearly Sthalmann in 'plain clothes'. He's ordering folk around like a captain would when the ship is attacked. No-one else is behaving in a captain-like fashion.

Of course, one-eyed Hyllfyr is captain of the Astalicia. The ship in your first Echo has to be the Astalicia. Sthalmann is Hyllsfyr.

This is (counter-intuitively) backed up by the fact that in Shot Through The Heart we see Hyllfyr and he clearly has two eyes. The same white-bearded, dark-skinned Roegadyn also appears in Captain's Orders, though you only get to see a bit of his beard, his darker complexion and one eye. Furthermore, it is significant that you never get to see "One-eyed Hyllfyr". it is clear that Hyllfyr of 1572 is not the same One-eyed Hyllfyr of 1562.

Now the Gamerescape wiki page on the Bloody Executioners states:

Not long ago, Capatain [sic] Hyllfyr allegedly retired from his life as an active pirate, during which he made an immense reputation for himself and even took part in driving off an enormous sea serpent some years ago.

Unfortunately, I can't find the source for this, so it's very possible it was conjecture by the editor Anwyll. The page has only been up since 3rd December 2012, but if the content has a legitimate source, it seals the deal beyond any doubt.

I'm happy with the evidence I've seen first-hand from cutscenes though.

OK

In 1572, Hyllfyr is the most notorious pirate around. However, no-one has heard of him in 1562 and he's referred to only as the "one-eyed captain" of the passenger/pirate ship that arrived in Limsa. Notice that it is Sthalmann who first insinuates it is a pirate ship, not a passenger ship, beginning to build Hyllfyr's notoriety.

I have to presume here that Sthalmann has been Commodore for a while before your first Echo. It would be lovely if he had arrived on the scene the just after the Astilicia docked in Limsa a few months prior to Treasures of the Main's Echoes, but I can find no history on him to suggest any of his actions before the ones he describes to H'naanza in Treasures of the Main.

So Sthalmann, as Hyllfyr, is out on the sea on his ship the Astilicia and comes across Swallowtail Roam/Seal Rock and does what any good pirate does and raids it. What they find at this point is never described. The ship is said to have 'stowaways' on board when it docks afterwards at Limsa and H'naanza alludes that there might be something else that got the Sea Serpent's attention. As to what these two elements are, I can only guess. However, I think that it is incredibly important to note that the Sea Serpent does not destroy the Astilicia. This isn't because the legendary beast is crap, but rather because it would not destroy either a) who/whatever was stolen from SR, or b) you (yes, I know you are in an Echo). The reason I suggest 'you' is because, as it passes over Hydaelyn sings to you "Walk free, walk free, believe, the land is alive, believe". That signifies that Hydaelyn talking to you in 1572 continues the conversation in 1562 a few minutes later and therefore shares your perspective. It is Hydaelyn that prevents the destruction of the Astilicia by commanding the Sea Serpent. Of course, this is just my interpretation.

The Astilicia sails back to port and Sthalmann and the whole crew are promptly arrested for questioning by himself, so that no-one else can communicate with them. In the interim time between the end of the Echo in Never the Twain Shall Meet, Hyllfyr 'retires', becomes a recluse and the Astilicia never moves again, becoming the Marauder's Guild.

You've covered the plotting between Sthalmann, Emeric and Merodaulyn, concluding in Sthalmann's failure (not sure how he was found out?), Emeric and Merodaulyn's disappearance after being 'saved' by Y'shtola when the Sea Serpent appears for the second time (Emeric becomes Blackburn, but what of Merodaulyn?). The only thing I would add is that it makes sense that Emeric, Merodaulyn and the new two-eyed Hyllfyr are all original crew members of the Astalicia that first discovered SR with unswerving loyalty to their captain, until his plan failed.


Hopefully I've convinced you so far. This, of course opens up a ton of further questions and theories. I'll probably go into that in a bit lol

[Orophin]

Emeric becomes Blackburn

I totally must have missed something there.

Not that it pertains to the past, but you can also see the so-called fake Hyllfyr in "Deus Ex Machina" when Merlwyb is betrayed by one of the pirates by selling out to the Imperials. He doesn't really play any part in this directly, that I can tell, but he does kind of saunter off after the assassination attempt on Merlwyb fails.

[Anonymoose]

I totally must have missed something there.

I'm in the middle of a long-winded post that addresses all of these things - but actually, he's right about that. I'm pretty damn sure that Emerick becomes Blackburn. Make your body ready and then click here.

[Orophin]

Hmm...I went back through my videos and they do look pretty similar. It's pretty funny how all those NPCs changed their names. I'm not familiar with the Ul'dah and Gridania storylines and I can understand why Emerick wanted to go incognito...what's the deal with the other two?

[Anonymoose]

Hmm...I went back through my videos and they do look pretty similar. It's pretty funny how all those NPCs changed their names. I'm not familiar with the Ul'dah and Gridania storylines and I can understand why Emerick wanted to go incognito...what's the deal with the other two?

The other two are as subtle as the Emerick / Blackburn link. In fact, the other two were hidden well enough that the Loremongers in GC Midlander refused to believe that Limsa's example ended at the obvious "Rostnsthal is Sthalmann" because, in his case it's not hidden at all. He even gets drunk and calls himself "Rostnsthalmann."

In Ul'dah - Minfilia was once Ascilia
In Gridania - The Hermit of the Wood was once Khrimm

[Orophin]

In Ul'dah - Minfilia was once Ascilia
In Gridania - The Hermit of the Wood was once Khrimm

Yeah I read that much. Is there some reasoning as to why they're going under a different name now though? As I mentioned previously it makes sense that Emerick, who was in cahoots with Stahlmann (or Hyllfyr? argh...) to take over the Admiralcy, would change his name and likeness as not to be recognized by people. What do the other two have to hide?

[Anonymoose]

Until I finish the Lominsan introductory arc, I actually don't really know, LOL. Catapult could tell you about Khrimm, and Loremonger is currently without a chief Ul'dahn representative (job's open!) Once I get through Lominsa, I'll finalize Catapult's Grid entries, and then we'll tackle Ul'dah before moving onto the Main Scenario and GC story arcs.

'til, then - I have no idea!

[Anonymoose]

I love a good conspiracy theory, but man, attempted debunking can take the wind out of them sails for a good few hours! Still, I will address every theory with the same care I hold my own nutbag ideas to, so off we go!

EDIT: So, I accidentally spilled the whole theory out and wrote a novel. Oh, well. We'll get to my Loremonger articles and point-by-point analyses later.

Remember: Look for contradictions and inconsistencies in everything I say, just in case

I'm going to hop around for a bit clearing up a few misconceptions before I get started.

This is the only sighting of the Sea Serpent since times of legend

The Sea Serpent makes at least three confirmed appearances:

• Shapeless Melody's leap over the echo ship
• The battle between the Knights of the Barracuda and the Serpent Reaver ships commanded by (Ascian-in-Disguise) Travanchet where it tidal waves everything in the vicinity
• A battle where local pirate gangs, including those aboard the Astalicia, drove the serpent back to the depths. Sthalmann implies to Reyner that it was the returning of the Rhotano Bloodcant tablet to the deep that actually caused it to leave, but this may have been a ruse to divert attention away from the horn (aka The Key; The Treasure) and steal the tablet for himself.

On the Astalicia

It's never stated in a single instance that Hyllfyr is, all of the above, captain of the Astalicia, which serves as the base of the Marauders Guild, headed by the Bloody Executioners, which he is also the leader of, and he's a legendary pirate with unmatched reputation. All of these things are said separately in various places across various times in various story arcs. I think Anwyll was generalizing (though, you never know with him. Dude's the wiki-editing definition of a loose cannon)*, but the quotes are:

Well, if ye be 'ells-bent on knowin' what 'appened th' last time that grisly beast reared 'is accursed 'ead, I suggest ye speak t' some o' the pirates what 'elped drive 'im back. <...> Ye seen the towerin' dromond down at th' docks? That there be the Astalicia―'ome to the fiercest buggers in Limsa. Was a time when them marauders 'd cut yer 'ead off fer so much as lookin' at their shadow. Cooled down a bit now their cap'n be retired. Opened up their ship t' the other pirate gangs an' started a proper guild o' their own.

Legends Adrift

Lest you doubt the extent of their degeneracy, no less an authority on acceptable standards of villainy than one Captain Hyllfyr has refused them a voice on the Astalicia.

Ceruleum Shock

To make matters worse, Limsa's pirates have already begun to rouse their crews for a fight, on the back of rumors that the Bloody Executioners are planning to pull Merlwyb from her perch and promote their captain, Hyllfyr, to Admiral.

Shot Through the Heart

As you can see, I have summoned others to this meeting─Commodore Reyner of the Knights of the Barracuda, Grand Storm Marshal Eynzahr Slafyrsyn... and finally, Hyllfyr, Captain of the Bloody Executioners, and voice of Limsa Lominsa's pirates.

Deus Ex Machina

"One-Eyed" ...

It took me a while to realize this, myself, but I'm about 85% sure that Sthalmann is not referring to Hob's ship or the events of Shapeless Melody at all when he talks to H'naanza.

In fact, if you look at your two quotes back-to-back, it should make it even more clear that, most likely, he is referring to the Astalicia. In 1572, the fact that the Astalicia is a pirate ship (everything I said up thar ^) is Lominsa's "worst-kept secret." but it was still a secret back in 1562, considering Hyllfyr hadn't settled down and opened it as a guild yet.

Thus, I think it's far more likely that Hyllfyr is legit. That the quotes above substantiate my previous claims by my own standards at least, so I think it's safe to say he was well-known in '62. Also, the theory about a Faux-Hyllfyr is based on Sthalmann having one eye and Hyllfyr having two, but also demands that 10 years is all it takes for people to forget the face of a pirate everyone knows, respects and fears despite the fact that he looks just like the guy who killed the Admiral in a failed coup.

Before I move into the scenario I think is more likely at this moment, I'll, of course, have to address your question: Why would a two-eyed pirate take a one-eyed nickname? To make him more intimidating. One of Lominsa's greatest pirate stories is that of One-eyed Wylfred (a story told by Erik).

My current theory, that Shapeless Melody takes place three months prior and Sthalmann becomes Commodore due to a Tident afterwards, does fit this timeline and takes this into account, even if it can't identify the echo ship or why Sthalmann was there. My thinking is that, as a pirate, Sthalmann would have been aware of the Astalicia regardless of whether he was on that ship's crew or not. Follow this line of logic.

THIS IS ALL FACT-BACKED, BUT STILL PURE SPECULATION:

Whatever ship he's on, he at least knows enough of the serpent's legend to realize that it's in the water and scream, "Brace yourselves!" before it reveals itself, much to his shock.

• Why does Sthalmann know the serpent is coming by the movements in the water?

He knows the legend. But if the serpent is real, then Swallowtail Roam must be real! The treasure must be real! If he could claim it, he could rule the seas!

• But, how could he possibly get the treasure?
  

Once the Knights of the Barracuda know Swallowtail Roam has risen, they'll lock the site right down. He'll somehow have to garner enough power with the Knights, before they find out about Swallowtail Roam, and lock it down for himself. He wants this kept as quiet as possible; that's why we hear it have two names, that's why he gets angry when people mention the sea serpent, this is why he manipulates knowledge about what it's after.

• Where do you get that kind of power over the 'Cudas?
  

There's only one way: your captain wins the Trident. He's already respected among his crew. Hell, they're probably already going to enter. They just need to win. Somehow, legitimately or not, Sthalmann helps them win.

• "Alright, I'm Commodore, now what?"

Rumors of the sea serpent are spreading, as are those that a strange island has appeared. He can't just tell them Swallowtail Roam has risen, so he denies the serpent and forms a special unit to investigate this "Seal Rock."

• "Alright, this is going pretty good. Hey, wait..."

Before the Seal Rock Unit can be formed, a civilian trade ship from another land is registered with the Lominsan government. But isn't that... IT IS. It's the Astalicia. "Oh, Hells no."

Sthalmann knows what the ship really is, so he immediately locks up the entire crew. No matter what happens, he cannot let a rival pirate with that much power and respect gain a foothold in his very city within his very government, but what can he do about it? Hyllfyr is private now, he doesn't let himself be seen; there's just no proof!

Sthalmann thus must stay in town and deal with this, and he can feel the treasure slipping from his grasp.

Think of all of this in context of the H'naanza quote you mentioned earlier. He tells her that, despite the lack of proof, this ship is without a doubt a pirate ship and he has to deal with it. H'naanza herself muses that this pirate conspiracy might be related to the sea serpent rumors. This is why Sthalmann flies into a rage - not only does he have to deal with this crap from Hyllfyr, but he can't even talk to anyone about it without them being like, "Well that must be related to that sea serpent you don't want anyone talking about!"

• How can he focus on Hyllfyr without losing the Treasure?

He needs a plan. First, he recruits Merodaulyn into the 'Cudas and places him on the Seal Rock unit. The Sanguine Sirens want a man in the 'Cudas, and Medodaulyn will leave them in an instant if he could be in with the next Admiral, instead. Then, he recruits Emerick from the Krakens Arms. He knows Emerick has dealings with the Sahagin's Serpent Reavers; his niece Sisipu saw him conspiring with them to attack Oschon's Torch.

While Sthalmann deals with issues in Limsa, Emerick schemes with the Serpent Reavers. He gives the 'Cuda charts to Travanchet and informs him that Merudaulyn will assist him in wiping out the Seal Rock Unit.

Emerick then backstabs the Sahagin and has his captain, Caravallian, sail right past the fight and raid Seal Rock. He hides Sthalmann's treasure away and none are the wiser.

Sthalmann then "arrests" Emerick for his role in the destruction of Sisipu's village and attacks on the 'Cuda fleet, then safely hides him away at the 'Cuda's sequester ship. Here, he can regroup with Emerick and Merodaulyn and execute the final part of his plan: kill the Admiral, activate the treasure, rule the seas.

• Unfortunately, Travanchet turns out to not be a Serpent Reaver at all.

This Elezen is able to blend into Lominsan crowds, but is in with the Sahagin, and deals with the pirates who have infiltrated the 'Cudas ... but he is loyal to none of the forces on which he spies. He's an Ascian.

Before Sthalmann can do anything, Tavanchet comes at him with all of his might. The sea serpent tries to come for those who took the treasure, but succeeds only in wrecking the fleets, severely wounding Emerick, and causing Merod to go MIA.

To make matters worse, Hyllfyr, though a pirate, is loyal to Lominsa's roots, safety, and values. The Astalicia sheds its subterfuge and leads the charge against the sea serpent, thus securing even more respect and causing the Lominsan government to look the other way on their docked "trade ship" so long as they open a "proper guild." This may be another reason Sthalmann says that the Rhotano Bloodcant tablet returned the Serpent to the depths. He wanted some credit.

Travanchet returns and is able to take the treasure from him and disappear, leaving Sthalmann with an Admiral dead at his hands and no way to take power. He falls into disgrace and Emerick takes on a new identity and leaves for Ul'dah.

Honestly, I didn't meant to spill the whole theory so soon.

The only thing stopping me from getting up on a mountain and yelling, "I've done it! I've finally done it!" is that it completely ignores Y'sholta's role. This is why I've started with those two simple questions of Shapeless Melody. If Sthalmann's role, or the ship's identity, contradict this at all, a lot of it is in danger of crumbling. If it all holds up, however, we end up back at Y'shtola.

We have since seen her in full Archon mode, which, to me, says that maybe she's using Circle of Knowing methods to investigate through time, trying to pinpoint the exact moment that the Ascians took the key out of play into their own dimension and prevent it from happening. This is why she gets closer and closer to the right point in time, it's how she teleports into places she has no right to be and out of imminent danger, and then shows up ten years later to get involved in Dalamud, and then 5 years later still for whatever happens in ARR - and doesn't look a day older.

If this is true of Y'shtola, then she's just doing her Circle of Knowing + Archon deal when in comes some newbie echo-hopper who crashes the party. She loses the key and goes back to the Circle of Knowing. When the Seventh Umbral Era begins, there's the echo person again; better team up.

If this is not true, then her actions are much more concrete and will likely dramatically interfere with my Sthalmann theory, as she'll be much more involved; though I must say, if this is the case, she ages ridiculously well. Like, lalafell well.

But there you have it. What do you think? I wish I could just lock this up! *n*

*SPOILER:
Anwyll is Anonymoose

[Ramesses]

Awesome consolidation of the theories Anonymoose, and I'll eagerly keep reading to see how this concludes.

One aspect of the Limsa storyline that has always always ALWAYS intrigued me is the part of that strange Elezen named Travanchet.

After showing up in the early Limsa storyline missions, he never shows up anywhere in the game again... so I keep asking... who IS this guy???

I know there was a discussion about this on the Lodestone last November or so... and in frustration, I think I even speculated once on my blog that he might be Darnus (which of course never added up).

So yeah...

[Catapult]

I'm yet to read through Moose's novel, but thought I should quickly jot down the Khrimm/Hermit basis.

Firstly, it is designed to be subtle. If they called him Khrimm as an adult, it would totally blow the plot open, so there is a design-function here. But it is sufficiently hinted at so that when it occurs to you, your eyes will snap open wildly with an OMG reaction. ^_^

Now, firstly consider Gridania's theocratic society. Unlike most modern civilisations that have a formal government and head of state, Gridania's head of state is actually the Forest itself. The high priests (padjal conjurers) maintain order, sometimes by spreading white lies through a town ruled by gossip. Yes, I'm making it wound worse than it is.
Khrimm has personally come face-to-face with some of these white lies and been particularly hurt by them. He has essentially become disenfranchised with Gridania. Even if he understands the reasons for why and how they do things and the importance of respecting the wood, he is clearly not prepared to live among them.
So he lives in the wood and eventually earns a nickname as such among the younger generation, the Hermit of the Wood. The older generation prefers not to speak of him or Fye and their tradgedy.


Edit: Ok, Moose. Awkward question time.
I think your theory is solid, so I'm going to throw some things at you as I think of them, specifically relating to Y'shtola.

The final confrontation with a double echo... supposedly, Y'shtola has agreed to a private meeting with Stahlmann there. Why? I know the broad reason, but I want you to spell it out in detail for me.