Seriously 3-5 minute repop on NMs?

[Abriael]

Why? You haven't explained why competition is bad. I have explained why I feel that it is good. That doesn't make me right, but it certainly doesn't make me wrong.

Facts prove you wrong.
In FFXI with longer respawn times people that abitually hunted NMs hated each other, continuously accused each other of cheating or botting, and generally created an horrible atmosphere.
In FFXIV with the shorter respawn times, complete strangers team up, chat amicably and make new friends, sharing loot and fun.

It's absolutely obvious which option is better for the community. I shouldn't even need to explain it.

[Clydey]

Facts prove you wrong.
In FFXI with longer respawn times people that abitually hunted NMs hated each other, continuously accused each other of cheating or botting, and generally created an horrible atmosphere.

That is an atmosphere of competition, which some people enjoy. Stating that is was a horrible atmosphere does not make it true. You are stating an opinion.

It's a bit like saying you wished everyone in the world agreed on everything. Great in theory, but boring in reality.

[Abriael]

That is an atmosphere of competitio

No, it's an atmosphere of extremised and exacerbated competition due to boredom and frustration.

which some people enjoy.

You may personally enjoy it as much as you want, but it's factually and undeniably not conductive to a strong and close knit community, which is a crucial asset to a MMORPG.
Cooperative play is factually and undeniably conductive to a strong and close knit community.

It's that simple.

(this without even mentioning that the whole concept behind the Final Fantasy franchise is unity and cooperation)

[Andrien]

That is an atmosphere of competition, which some people enjoy. Stating that is was a horrible atmosphere does not make it true. You are stating an opinion.

It's a bit like saying you wished everyone in the world agreed on everything. Great in theory, but boring in reality.

That maybe true, but not everyone can slave themselves. People got lives to live, jobs and friends. With that in mind I understand completely why the devs went this way, and I agree with them.

I hated camping, even my LS gave up on it when botting was on the rise in FFXI. You got to understand some people camp just to kill it. Ixion, King Behemoth etc. Anything that is worth selling and making money, and monopolizing. It was disgusting.

[Sorel]

I'm probably the biggest fan of debate out there. But at a certain point the argument goes "meta-" and starts being about arguing about the argument or the arguers, instead of about the subject. Usually it happens in PvE vs. PvP threads. I'm surprised that NM respawn times are such a polarizing issue ... especially considering that it is quite possibly the easiest thing for SE to adjust in the entire game.

[Neptune]

Unfortunately, I fear it won't be, because he talked about "strenght", not "waiting". Some don't want a challenge. They want to wait.

Amen brother. I just converted.

Can't people express their views without the 'opposition' demeaning them? You are completely misrepresenting the issue and you know you are.

No way he's right, people are asking for masochism. They need an excuse to feel better than other people because of all the hard work they put in.. to a videogame.

No. I didn't. I obviously talked about "Some", and it's rather obvious that some people around here are quite clearly giving the timesink aspect of old-style nm hunting a higher priority than any kind of challenge.

Amen, amen. Good service today.

that is going to end up happening anyway.... >.>? don't make me log in ffxi and count how many ppl have bounding boots or empress hairpin or kirin osode, kirons pole or belck belt etc. I'm bored enough and ebd up doing it XD

That's exactly right.. O-Hat was a hard to get item.. didn't matter.. O-Hat runs. Gear up and let's head out we're going to spend the next week or two getting everyone O-Hats, cause we're hardcore. What difference would it have made to its rarity if it dropped off a lvl 1 sheep? Everyone would have one anyway.

[Clydey]

You may personally enjoy it as much as you want, but it's factually and undeniably not conductive to a strong and close knit community, which is a crucial asset to a MMORPG.
Cooperative play is factually and undeniably conductive to a strong and close knit community.

It's that simple.

(this without even mentioning that the whole concept behind the Final Fantasy franchise is unity and cooperation)

FFXI functioned absolutely fine without this utopian existence you speak of.

[CrystalWeapon]

That is an atmosphere of competition, which some people enjoy. Stating that is was a horrible atmosphere does not make it true. You are stating an opinion.

It's a bit like saying you wished everyone in the world agreed on everything. Great in theory, but boring in reality.

Abyssea is an example in the difference in atmosphere. With shorter respawns on the nm's and alot of forced pops, you see alot more players saying "Oh you only need one, ok go ahead" or "Let's team up your drops, we'll help you kill it faster so we can go". It's not the same *pounce at it the second it spawns* "This is mines!". When the nm's take an hour if not more to spawn you're less likely to want to help anyone.

From personal experience of hunting nms alongside some real douchebags (still love them <3). In this situtation you're more likely to get people willing to MPK, or other methods to get the mob to go yellow to steal. When you force the mobs to be scarce selfishness will take over. It might not happen to everyone but it will be there. I disagree with your point that it does not create a horrible atmosphere. I personally do not like to be around people who are out to steal from others or who blow a fuse when they are outclaimed. Yes it's opinion but generally speaking any atmosphere that generates greed, murderous intent (allbeit virtual), and anger is a negative one.

[Clydey]

I'm probably the biggest fan of debate out there. But at a certain point the argument goes "meta-" and starts being about arguing about the argument or the arguers, instead of about the subject. Usually it happens in PvE vs. PvP threads. I'm surprised that NM respawn times are such a polarizing issue ... especially considering that it is quite possibly the easiest thing for SE to adjust in the entire game.

Indeed.

I think we've said all that needed to be said. The devs will do as they see fit anyway. It's not something I'd expect people to quit over.

[Clydey]

Abyssea is an example in the difference in atmosphere. With shorter respawns on the nm's and alot of forced pops, you see alot more players saying "Oh you only need one, ok go ahead" or "Let's team up your drops, we'll help you kill it faster so we can go". It's not the same *pounce at it the second it spawns* "This is mines!". When the nm's take an hour if not more to spawn you're less likely to want to help anyone.

From personal experience of hunting nms alongside some real douchebags (still love them <3). In this situtation you're more likely to get people willing to MPK, or other methods to get the mob to go yellow to steal. When you force the mobs to be scarce selfishness will take over. It might not happen to everyone but it will be there. I disagree with your point that it does not create a horrible atmosphere. I personally do not like to be around people who are out to steal from others or who blow a fuse when they are outclaimed. Yes it's opinion but generally speaking any atmosphere that generates greed, murderous intent (allbeit virtual), and anger is a negative one.

I actually disagree with this. Obviously we could do without all the MPKing and such nonsense. Those issues can be addressed. However, I do value the sort of competition we saw in XI. It can lead to unsavoury incidents, but for me the positives outweighed the negatives. I particularly enjoyed the competition between linkshells. That was a huge selling point for me.