Seriously 3-5 minute repop on NMs?

[Abriael]

The point is that it takes an awful lot longer for it to become routine.

Nope. It's still a routine. A routine is simply an activity doing regularly. 2 days or 2 hours doesn't make a difference.

I'm not advocating that at all. Having an NM pop during a 30 minute window does not reduce accessibility for those who do not have a lot of time on their hands.

Of course it does. It's an extremely predictable spawn time, and turns the camp in an overcamped mess, meaning that people will very rarely even get a shot at the mob, bahving to wait another 30 minutes, then another 30, then another 30 and so forth. It's most definitely not "only" 30 minutes.

Ah, so we're playing word games. In that case, 'too infrequently' is equally arbitrary.

Luckily, the definition of a timesink is not.

You are still discounting the fact that many people enjoy the scarcity of these NMs. You don't enjoy that aspect, which is fine, but it is pointless vilifying those who do.

"Many"? Rather elastic definition of a vast minority of vocal elitists. Let's not pull people by the nose. Most of those enjoy keeping other people out of that "exclusive club", not the "scarcity" of the NM. There are quite a few example in this very thread.

All spawns are going to be predictable to some extent. There is no getting away from that.

There's getting away from that. It's exactly what we have now with very short timers. The timer is short, so people don't feel compelled to be there at every repop, and the number of people camping the same mob at the same time gets diluted considerably. In addition to that, people are encouraged to team up instead of competing with every other goon in sight, which is very conductive to a good community.
As it's exactly happening with the new NMs in FFXIV, mind you.

[Clydey]

I understand your argument better now. Thank you.

We do disagree, though. I do not believe it is philosophically a good idea to limit content to a subset of players. Respawn timers of greater than 2 hours effectively and practically do that (see my previous example).

But I do understand what you are saying. However the case, this is something that I wouldn't quit over. And I don't think anyone else should, either.

I wouldn't quit over it either. However, I would like to see some sort of balance struck. I'm not suggesting that long repops should be implemented globally, but rather only for the absolute strongest HNMs.

[GabbaGabba]

I think SE is trying to find that bridge with the hardcore and casual players and i feel like its gonna happen with NMs and dungeons/raids.

one thing about FFXI was that both NMs and dungeon-esque content were really difficult to complete.

i think with FFXIV, they are trying to make the NM part of the game very casual. anyone with limited time of play can go and find these NMs to kill for gear.

to appeal to the hardcore players, i think SE is going to make raids/dungeons really hard and it requires someone with a lil more time than others to dedicate themselves to completing these dungeons.

to make it fair, have dungeon gear slightly better than NM (non-HNM) gear.

i think this will appease both types of gamers

[Abriael]

I wouldn't quit over it either. However, I would like to see some sort of balance struck. I'm not suggesting that long repops should be implemented globally, but rather only for the absolute strongest HNMs.

Honestly I don't think there's any possibility of mediation with people that want to effectively reduce the enjoyment of other players (that paid the same for the game), trying to keep them locked out of certain areas of content.
That attitude needs to go.

[Betelgeuzah]

No, it becomes routine if you shorten the timers to the extreme. Indeed, that's the very definition of routine. There is nothing routine about fighting an HNM that takes days to spawn. If they ceased to be special for you, then that is your problem. I can only imagine how routine those mobs would have become if they had popped every 2 hours, as you seem to be suggesting.

Isn't it always "my problem" if a fight becomes routine? Regardless of what the spawn time is, different groups will be fighting the monster and it won't become "routine" for everyone all at once. It is a group-by-group basis no matter what the repop time is. If you have never fought the mob before it is an epic struggle while to some other group it is routine. Repop time has nothing to do with this, how the player perceives the difficulty of the encounter has everything to do with it. To some groups the fight becomes routine faster than to others, but as you said, that's their problem and has nothing to do with everyone else, since currently we do not have a hive-mind that we can share our experience and skill with as far as I know.

And if you think that there is nothing routine about fighting an HNM that takes days to spawn, you clearly did not even experience the content. Although to be fair, it wasn't only routine, it was routine and tedious as hell at the same time.

Your thought process makes little sense. If the mob is hard, it's no routine to beat it. The mob won't become routine for every group all at once. Simple as that. There are always people who find the encounter special, and those who don't. The only difference is whether people see the encounters as special and tedious or just special.

[Scarface]

The only role long repop timers have is to make a rare spawn convenient for every region without oversupplying a NM. Make a 72 hour NM spawn at 8pm JP time, 8pm NA time, and 8pm EU time every 3 days. Half hour window, then it's over. Then everyone who wants a shot at it knows when it pops, has a convenient time that it pops, and it's still rare.

The hardcores will hate this, because it's convenient enough for the player base to beat their asses with.

You can have 24 hour public claim NMs. You just have to make them as convenient to camp for 90% of players as it is for the 10% poopsockers.

Then every 3 days the same LSs will camp it 3 times a day. Simple, lol. 8 people in one party isn't hard to coordinate...

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Having to wait is just dumb. It's like "Hey guys lets go sit here for 2-3 hours to wait for an NM to spawn and if we get lucky enough to get the claim we only have a like 10% chance to get the item", that's just stupid. I have wasted so much time on FFXI sitting around waiting for a stupid NM to spawn and either not getting the claim or getting it several times and never getting the item I wanted. Half the time the NM were the lower level ones that were always being camped that any level 10,20, or 30 player could kill and I understand why some people liked that better. The idea of getting an item that is more rare and/or the challenge of getting the claim from somebody else but FFXI got to the point where you couldn't get claims unless you was cheating because people used claim bots.

So basically my point is I wouldn't mind if the NMs had maybe a 20-30 minute pop window at the most (unless it was HNM quality) and keep the current drop rates. But honestly I would like it how it is now(would prefer 10-15 minute pop windows over 5min) but make the NMs really hard and maybe even lower the drop rates to to cap at like 10% but they always drop normal items like they do now (So you can break them down for the Materia system thing that is on its way and you never feel cheated)

[Clydey]

Nope. It's still a routine. A routine is simply an activity doing regularly. 2 days or 2 hours doesn't make a difference.

We are clearly using different definitions of 'routine'. You do realise that words often have multiple definitions, right?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/routine

'...dull or uninteresting; commonplace.'

Of course it does. It's an extremely predictable spawn time, and turns the camp in an overcamped mess, meaning that people will very rarely even get a shot at the mob, bahving to wait another 30 minutes, then another 30, then another 30 and so forth. It's most definitely not "only" 30 minutes.

Everyone still has a shot at the claim. I am no more likely to get the claim than you, yet you would not see me complaining.

Luckily, the definition of a timesink is not.

A lot of things can be counted as a time sink if you look at them cumulatively. Spending an extra 10 minutes in bed every morning is a time sink, assuming that's the reasoning you are clinging to.

"Many"? Rather elastic definition of a vast minority of vocal elitists. Let's not pull people by the nose. Most of those enjoy keeping other people out of that "exclusive club", not the "scarcity" of the NM. There are quite a few example in this very thread.

That's an assumption. I certainly don't feel that way and it would be naive of me to think of myself as somehow being especially sensitive to the needs of those pressed for time.

[Lusavari]

Mid level NMs don't need long ass timers, people. There comes a point where complaining about things not being challenging enough becomes absurd. Personally, I never want to see another 21-23 hour NM or one of those that only popped once a week again.

Come on though. Leaping Lizzy was ridiculously easy anyway, the only challenge was when it was extremely over camped by RMT. There were TWO spawns for it, which were completely independent, which often resulted in Lizzy repopping within the 5 minute window.

And having huge repops on Low level NMs is just such a waste of time. Everyone is just gonna come right back after an hour. Some of the biggest complaints already involve things that make people not play, like the Surplus system, and huge guild leve timers. When I was camping NMs with huge pop timers, everyone spent most of the spawn time/non-pop window time afk. Because standing around staring at a screen (or Darters) when nothing is going to happen for another 29 minutes is just not exciting.

[Abriael]

We are clearly using different definitions of 'routine'. You do realise that words often have multiple definitions, right?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/routine

'...dull or uninteresting; commonplace.'

Which is a completely arbitrary definition. In any casse, as Betelgeuzah rightly stated, it's also your own task not to get burned out of content.

Everyone still has a shot at the claim. I am no more likely to get the claim than you, yet you would not see me complaining.

Radically lower chances = Radically lower accessibility. It's a steel-clad equation.

A lot of things can be counted as a time sink if you look at them cumulatively. Spending an extra 10 minutes in bed every morning is a time sink, assuming that's the reasoning you are clinging to.

There's a BIG different than wasting one's time (time -> sink) and spending one's time having fun during an engaging activity.
I don't pay to waste my time in bed, so the comparison is rather inappropriate.

That's an assumption. I certainly don't feel that way and it would be naive of me to think of myself as somehow being especially sensitive to the needs of those pressed for time.

You just have to read the thread. Especially the posts of the one that started it.