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  1. #21
    Player
    Jocko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    404
    Character
    Cecilia Amor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Duelle View Post
    which means that all healers should be able to perform equally or near equally in all content
    I've never understood, why does this have to be the case? What's wrong with classes excelling (by design) in certain types of content over other classes? It allows classes to be designed with more prominent differences and content to be more varied if you adhere your game to that theory. I'm not saying content should be impossible for certain roles, but that there should be definite and desirable advantages pending from fight to fight, especially in a game that encourages you to level up multiple classes (Both for cross class skills, and by the sheer nature of the low leveling curve).
    (5)

  2. #22
    Player
    fusional's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,170
    Character
    Veto Bahamut
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 1
    if other healing classes are *just* healers, and whm is the superior healing class overall, yes- nobody will invite the other classes.

    on the other hand, if other healing classes can still heal but have their abilities scaled back just a touch in comparison to whm, but are given secondary utility functions (similar to bard) then you can be sure groups will find a reason to bring one along for the ride. ex: haste buff

    people need to stop and think for a second what this game will be like in 24 man raids if new classes aren't added, and if we aren't given reasons to diversify which classes we bring.

    we'll have 3-4 paladins, 4-5 white mages, 1-2 bards and then 14-15 black mages or dragoons. which sounds absolutely awful. who could be bothered to raid in a scenario like that?

    24 man content is coming, and class diversity *will be necessary* to keep it from being repetitive and generic.


    and for the record- equalizing healing ability in MoP was one of the worst design choices blizzard ever made. it used to be that you needed paladins to tank heal, disc priests to offtank heal (and bubble raid), then a mix of resto shamans, resto druids and holy priests to raid heal (you brought all three to make sure your raid got their respective buffs)

    each class had a fairly defined role it excelled at, plus some sort of secondary utility in the form of different buffs for the raid. this gave raids reason to bring each kind of healer rather than stacking one or two. this also kept things interesting from the healer's perspective since even among the raid healers their aoe heals worked differently and were better or worse situationally.

    this added depth to combat and gave blizzard more options with battle design.

    MoP genericized healing, though, and it just feels redundant and clunky.

    adding more classes will be absolutely necessary for the health of raiding in FFXIV long-term, but balancing will be tricky and they need to be extremely careful about making classes too similar to each other. identity is an absolute must. but there also needs to be reason to bring classes that aren't always as good as others situationally.

    and as i've said- that would come from secondary functions (utility) and battle design (needing certain classes for certain roles/functions in the battle)

    don't get it twisted, don't oversimplify and don't say "everything should be equal in all situations so nobody gets butthurt"- it just leads to a boring game which lacks difficulty and depth
    (4)
    Last edited by fusional; 02-07-2013 at 04:32 PM.

  3. #23
    Player

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    28
    What about a chemist? This is something I've brought up before, and in no way was my idea... But imagine this, you're a musketeer or something (some core class with a pistol) and your job becomes chemist. To heal a party you throw a potion up in the air and shoot it, heals rain down... There's a lot more to this idea, but it's not worth going into here. But this job could be both a healer and an enfeebler. Throw some acid at a mob, defence down etc etc..

    I'd play that class...
    (2)

  4. #24
    Player
    fusional's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,170
    Character
    Veto Bahamut
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 1
    in theory, chemist would be an excellent option
    (2)

  5. #25
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Decconi View Post
    This goes along with how tanks still kept their identity. This concept works in other games. I fear that in this game since we can change jobs on the fly that different styles of healing will take precedence depending on the encounter you face... I really dislike the "change job on the fly" bull crap. If they do this, you will see more healers but in the long run people wont be able to just be WHM because "such and such" job is better at healing due to some crazy mechanic. Just like how Warrior could be better at tanking "such and such" because of some other crazy mechanic.

    As much as I agree with more healers in the game (Please, oh please more healers!), I just hope that what I described above wont happen.


    On the fly job changing is horrible for designing dungeons and hybrids - since then players will always be picking the most efficient choice and not an overall choice. (unless you like the same fights and strategies being repeated, and having to have all classes in a sector leveled)


    Seeing as I'm unhappy WHM took spells I feel should be BLM (stone, aero) I want to see another healing class :P (Yes I know there are some FF that BLM do not have the full elemental wheel, but I prefer the ones that do)


    WHM can feel the annoyance of being almost classed by others heals. lol


    On a serious note, I dont think its a problem so long as they can be fairly interchangeable, or dungeons are designed to have points for both classes and you cant switch.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shougun; 02-07-2013 at 04:40 PM.

  6. #26
    Player
    Cale_Imrik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    56
    Character
    Virae Kiran
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    What I'd want to see is 2 more healing classes.

    Summoner:

    Carby as healing pet with 2 modes triggered by the SMN. Focus and Roam, Focus the SMN targets someone and Carby focuses on the target, putting light heals and HoTs on them. And Roam where Carby runs back and forth to the lowest HP in the group, applying the same heals/HoTs. Bigger heals and buffs triggered by SMN spells/abilities.

    And as HarukoD said, Chemist:

    AoE Buffs/Heals/Debuffs around target by throwing potions, Buff that increases effect of Potions used by party members, and maybe something similar to WoW's Mage tables where the Chemist created potions the party members can pick up.
    (1)

  7. #27
    Player
    Niqote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,069
    Character
    Sa'niquel Amrita
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Botanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by fusional View Post
    if other healing classes are *just* healers, and whm is the superior healing class overall, yes- nobody will invite the other classes.

    on the other hand, if other healing classes can still heal but have their abilities scaled back just a touch in comparison to whm, but are given secondary utility functions (similar to bard) then you can be sure groups will find a reason to bring one along for the ride. ex: haste buff

    people need to stop and think for a second what this game will be like in 24 man raids if new classes aren't added, and if we aren't given reasons to diversify which classes we bring.

    we'll have 3-4 paladins, 4-5 white mages, 1-2 bards and then 14-15 black mages or dragoons. which sounds absolutely awful. who could be bothered to raid in a scenario like that?

    24 man content is coming, and class diversity *will be necessary* to keep it from being repetitive and generic.
    Actually one thing I must praise 1.0 for is that all the DDs if geared and played well were pretty much as effective as the others when it came to actual Damage... it's their skills that lead them to be better in certain situations (ie. stun stun stun Chimera MNKs and DRGs for that 17min CC)

    Thing is... WHM is a healer and a healer only. SURE you DD whenever you find yourself standing still for more then 5 seconds (gotta love those parties where everyone knows what they are doing) but overall your one job is to save your party from the mobs...and sometimes themselves. Unlike any other heal capable class who carries sword or dagger or book the WHM will be roasted alive if a tank so much as sees red blinking HP... PUGs anyone?

    Who else in the FF universe is healer ONLY?
    FFXIs Dancer is a fabulous back up healer and is on par with RDMs solo capabilities.
    FFXIs SMN is a great buffer, DD and back up healer.
    And poor RDMS... sometimes I think the only reason they were forced to heal is because of haste (I played in WotG times btw) SCH - I don't know ifs it's changed these days but those Grey mage wannabes took forever to do anything

    FFXIVs BRD can't heal for shite, they are a buffer + DD

    The only class I can think off the top of my head as a Main healer is Green Mage, and ultimately they are a traditional debuffer, which if introduced I would imagine they would be incredibly effective at it, more so then all our current very short lived debuffs - making their focus the Boss Mob first and players second...you could assume

    So who else could take the same role? Eventually we will get more heal capable classes, so that if you only have 2/4 WHMs in a 24 man raid you can just sub in 2 DNCs and a SMN to help out... but no one will heal as well as a WHM in a Final fantasy universe ^_^

    edit: forgot chemist. Eh I talked enough, gosh that would be more expensive then COR was XD
    (3)
    Last edited by Niqote; 02-07-2013 at 04:52 PM.

  8. #28
    Player
    fusional's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,170
    Character
    Veto Bahamut
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Cale_Imrik View Post
    And Roam where Carby runs back and forth to the lowest HP in the group, applying the same heals/HoTs
    doesn't sound like summoner would require much skill >.>
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    62
    Quote Originally Posted by HarukoD View Post
    What about a chemist? This is something I've brought up before, and in no way was my idea... But imagine this, you're a musketeer or something (some core class with a pistol) and your job becomes chemist. To heal a party you throw a potion up in the air and shoot it, heals rain down... There's a lot more to this idea, but it's not worth going into here. But this job could be both a healer and an enfeebler. Throw some acid at a mob, defence down etc etc..
    Offtopic but I hope they leave Musketeer to be the ranged dps archetype rather than turning another ranged class into a support role. (RIP Archer)
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by hotah View Post
    Offtopic but I hope they leave Musketeer to be the ranged dps archetype rather than turning another ranged class into a support role. (RIP Archer)
    I hate bard.


    I know some people are like "ooh I can dps its so cool" .. but you are not a bard your an archer with some songs and I hate you so lol - also there is no reason SE couldnt design DPS bard spells, rather then using a bow.


    RIP archer, RIP bard.
    (3)

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