What Tera taught me about the quest plans for ARR.

[Sanne]

I have been playing Tera for the past 3 days...I'm to level 26, and so far it makes me realize that non-stop quest grinding has a way of feeling just as lifeless as regular grinding... There's no occasion to kill mobs never listed on a quest, there's no occasion to stop and look around, no reason to ever return to an old zone, there's nothing but being shuffled from one place to the next like cattle with all your leveling practically being done for you, in a never ending stream that begins to feel mind-numbingly linear. Last time I turned Tera off it was as I sat back and asked myself what the hell I was doing, and wondering was I really enjoying this, or was I just stuck in the loop? Then I had to turn it off when I realized it was just a loop and there was nothing really enjoyable about ANY of it.

I guess this could be dealt with in ARR with epic storylines, plot twists, and humorous or touching sidequests. Some truly innovative quests. Or even the occasional break in which regular grinding must be done for even just 2-3 levels before the quest loop begins again. I want to feel like I'm involved in the game's world and lore, where my level is raised by showing courage and skill...not feel like I'm rolling down an assembly line.

The one thing Tera DID seem to have going for it was small details like the stuff you would occasionally see floating by (seeds, or petals, or leaves), the fact that when you follow a river, it actually GOES somewhere that isn't an invisible wall. The bustling sound of voices and pets in the centers of towns, the epic splashes and sprays of blood as you slice into a mob, the little woodland creatures walking around just for show (some which you could kill for no real reason).

That said, Tera completely misses almost all the broadstrokes. Sure the combat system is kinda cool (though purely-action combat would never really work in ARR), but other than that, the story goes too long without giving you any INTERESTING details, every sidequest plot in each area is identical (kill X amount of mob to thin the herd, kill such and such mob to get 'special item, repeat).

Originally I had gone into the 'quest grind' topic uneducated. I liked quests, more quests sounded like more fun. But now I know that there needs to be moderation, or too much of a good thing becomes an incessant flood of whiny NPCs whose issues I quickly cease to care about.


TL;DR: SE really should be very careful about how they approach this whole 'you'll be able to quest-grind all your classes to 50' thing.

Isn't it the same with old group grinding?

The first few levels in groups are always fun, especially when you get new mobs and need to learn what the most effective way it is to kill them, but when you done a few of them it gets boring and very repeative.

Sometimes you have a nice group that talks etc. but in all mmorpg's I played, it usually is just about killing as fast as possible without a chat. I had this in all MMORPGs, also FFXI which I played from 2003 till today. (since abyssea it is really gotten much worse)

The same is with questing, but then I will prefer questing above old school grinding.
Also it depends if the stories are interesting from the quests, as you said, you need something interesting in the quest. If you learn more about the world in the quests then questing can be a good thing.

Still people can ignore the story off course, and then they will not enjoy the questing.

Also while there is questing, why can't we still group and old school grind? What is stopping us?
Has anyone tried it out how good it is?

Also why can't you look around when questing, why can't you talk like in a grinding party?

The social aspect of the game is created by the people, to believe we just have to go fast from quest to quest, or from grinding mob to grinding mob, without a look or talk, it is all created by ourselfs, we want to go as quick as possible to end game.

For me that usually is the reason why I prefer to solo. I can look around and play my own story, while chatting with the LS, no one is pushing to go to the next objective, may it be a quest or mob.

I played MMORPG's from 1999, and I am done with level grinding as fast as possible to max, when I go in a group I want to have fun, and don't care about leveling. When I do quests I actually want to read them.

I do hope to find people who have the same mindset, because a party can be more fun, with the right people.
I hope the community doesn't wait for SE to force them into group, you only get bad groups from that, just people who only want the fastest way to the end.

I hope we can make it a fun game together, helping eachother, talking to each other.
But it is something we have to do ourselfs.

Anyway that is what I believe.

[Seirra_Lanzce]

sometime these people rather skim through the lot of the quest instead of "Ooohhh let me read this" but you know, now-a-days peeps dont wanna read anymore text base.

[Neptune]

Punainen for Most Improved Student

[Reika]

Isn't it the same with old group grinding?

The first few levels in groups are always fun, especially when you get new mobs and need to learn what the most effective way it is to kill them, but when you done a few of them it gets boring and very repeative.

Sometimes you have a nice group that talks etc. but in all mmorpg's I played, it usually is just about killing as fast as possible without a chat. I had this in all MMORPGs, also FFXI which I played from 2003 till today. (since abyssea it is really gotten much worse)

The same is with questing, but then I will prefer questing above old school grinding.
Also it depends if the stories are interesting from the quests, as you said, you need something interesting in the quest. If you learn more about the world in the quests then questing can be a good thing.

Still people can ignore the story off course, and then they will not enjoy the questing.

Also while there is questing, why can't we still group and old school grind? What is stopping us?
Has anyone tried it out how good it is?

Also why can't you look around when questing, why can't you talk like in a grinding party?

The social aspect of the game is created by the people, to believe we just have to go fast from quest to quest, or from grinding mob to grinding mob, without a look or talk, it is all created by ourselfs, we want to go as quick as possible to end game.

For me that usually is the reason why I prefer to solo. I can look around and play my own story, while chatting with the LS, no one is pushing to go to the next objective, may it be a quest or mob.

I played MMORPG's from 1999, and I am done with level grinding as fast as possible to max, when I go in a group I want to have fun, and don't care about leveling. When I do quests I actually want to read them.

I do hope to find people who have the same mindset, because a party can be more fun, with the right people.
I hope the community doesn't wait for SE to force them into group, you only get bad groups from that, just people who only want the fastest way to the end.

I hope we can make it a fun game together, helping eachother, talking to each other.
But it is something we have to do ourselfs.

Anyway that is what I believe.

Great points and well said. Almost every grind party I was in for 1.0 had little conversation going on too. It was as good as having an NPC party. Most things said were 'BRB' and 'back'. All that was important is getting those classes to 50, since almost all of the content required you be 45+ (50). How many people really want everyone else to leave them in the dust, to level alone because they felt like taking their sweet time? Not many. Thats why there has been talk here about 'Finding what really gets you more EXP' because thats really want it's all about.

Only a tiny handful of people I know in the game were in no hurry to level up, and they weren't ones to do grind parties.

[Mikita]

Isn't it the same with old group grinding?

[... many good points ...]

Anyway that is what I believe.

Agreed that questing and sociability are not dependent on or opposed to each other. You can have both. You can have neither.

Being with good company can make even the most boring activities more bearable... perhaps even fun!


One of the biggest problems seems to be that many people believe "all the good stuff happens at endgame".

They are so focused on getting to level cap as quickly as possible, that everything up to that point becomes the "grind". They see the process of leveling up as just preventing them from having their fun sooner.

Of course we can't start people at level cap, so having a variety of ways to level up should make it more enjoyable. That is one thing ARR will have going for it -- a wide range of activities and ways to level up from the start, aside from simple and short quests. After all, it had 2 years of beta development. ^^;

[Cynthis]

The social aspect of the game is created by the people, to believe we just have to go fast from quest to quest, or from grinding mob to grinding mob, without a look or talk, it is all created by ourselfs, we want to go as quick as possible to end game.

For me that usually is the reason why I prefer to solo. I can look around and play my own story, while chatting with the LS, no one is pushing to go to the next objective, may it be a quest or mob.

Very good post. While I did party grind certain levels on certain classes since I did not find them as fun as I had hoped I agree with this wholeheartedly.

[Duelle]

Something else, in The Secret World, which is also quest-leveling based, there are these types called "Investigative Quests" where you solve mysteries and puzzles, sometimes literally researching things on the internet to solve them. SO Neat! ARR would be a great place for quest leveling like that (the "GC Midlander" thread being a great example of why^ ^). The point being, its all about how they do it, right? Quest-based leveling could be really fun and painless while still being challenging. Besides, theres always monsters hanging around...easy enough to find some brainless grinding, with or with out quests.

Well, the question is what exactly would you base your investigation quests around? TSW had a web browser built in because of the investigation quests. I mean, I can't think of a way to make it work without referring back to information from the three city newspapers or having some sort of in-game library to look stuff up.

[MrKupo]

Well, the question is what exactly would you base your investigation quests around? TSW had a web browser built in because of the investigation quests. I mean, I can't think of a way to make it work without referring back to information from the three city newspapers or having some sort of in-game library to look stuff up.

I remember at some point someone mentioning having the Lodestone implemented in game somehow to make the lore more readily available. That could be one means.

On another note, I think quests will be better when pacing is controlled. Rather than give all the information immediately by the quest giver, things like cutscenes and NPCs that reveal information the farther you get into the quest can keep things interesting. There are certain quests that leave you hanging on what the actual purpose of the quest is up until the very last moment, when you realize the stuff you've been running around spreading on a bunch of trees was poop.

[Paradedc]

Well, the question is what exactly would you base your investigation quests around? TSW had a web browser built in because of the investigation quests. I mean, I can't think of a way to make it work without referring back to information from the three city newspapers or having some sort of in-game library to look stuff up.

Well unlike TSW, there won't be much relating to real life events in FFXIV ARR so you won't really need the internet. You won't have to research who composed a real song, or who drew a certain painting, or investigate some website developed by SE(or Funcom is TSW case). These can be just missions with no real direction given on the map just a clue of what to do in game. Researching old city newspapers, talking to NPCs in an area and asking if they saw anything, getting small pieces to a puzzle and trying to put everything together.

Of course I bet majority of the people would just look it up online but for some of us it would be a lot of fun!

[Seirra_Lanzce]

for the lulz..

Tera has taught me fun in first impression
FFXIV has taught me otherwise(very bad) in first impression..

At least Tera got it right on first impression. but lack of certain "things" and is not suitable for p2p game anyway. hah!

and if FFXIV is still going with Tanaka, subs will definitely loose and the game gone dead. Good for YoshiP to come to the rescue.