[Reminder] Are you ready to cry again? (2° Wave of Alpha invites tomorrow, 3 dec.)

[Starlord]

Not really, especially in a conversation in which there are points and counterpoints in sequence. It's called "discussion".

By your logic, you consider yourself a spammer, since you've been continuing to antagonize those disappointed with the situation over and over since the alpha started, and actually posted the same things on the topic much more than I did.

Or maybe your logic includes the clause that only those that disagree with you can be considered spammers?

You been saying the same thing " Oh, Non-actives are getting in!" Just in a more longwided post ever since Alpha started here in NA. I'm sorry but you are spamming.

[Abriael]

You been saying the same thing " Oh, Non-actives are getting in!" Just in a more longwided post ever since Alpha started here in NA. I'm sorry but you are spamming.

Looking inwardly would do you good, considering that you've been saying the same things over and over since the alpha started as well, and actually with an higher frequency than I do.

This, of course, without mentioning all those that do nothing else than posting motivated pictures with just another variation of "u mad!" because they have really nothing to contribute to the debate.

If anything what SE has been doing is smart they have sent Alpha invites to a lot of popular mmo players on twitch t.v who gets like 5-20k views per day and those guys have been talking fondly of the game.

Too bad that inviting those few people (the input of which is very debatable this early, as it'll be well forgotten by when it's time to buy the game, in addition to being an open invitation to break the NDA) doesn't conflict in any way with inviting those that actually support the game.

Criticism is fine, but remember, you are only criticising as far as your opinion of how things should be. SE, I'm sure, has their reasons for how they handled alpha. I, too, am disappointed for not getting into alpha. But to tell you the truth, whether or not they allow a few loyalists in to test a game's alpha mode doesn't really say that SE doesn't value the opinions of their customers. Some loyalists did get in. Also, some people who haven't been there as long as us got in. We simply weren't amongst the chosen few. It can be a bitter pill to take, but like I said before, I'm sure SE has their reasons. This isn't their first ball game, after all. Anyway, I'm sure those who got in are providing some good feedback (some of them, at least). And our feedback can come later.

I'm sure they have their reason. Just as much as they had their reasons to release FFXIV the way they did. This doesn't and shouldn't prevent me or anyone else from telling them "hey, SE, your reasons and priorities are all over the place".

The fact that they didn't invite all their most loyal supporter, does, in my opinion, show that they don't value their feedback enough. Other companies manage to do so, so it's possible. They just chose not to, and that's the problem.

[Firon]

This, of course, without mentioning all those that do nothing else than posting motivated pictures with just another variation of "u mad!" because they have really nothing to contribute to the debate.



Too bad that inviting those few people (the input of which is very debatable this early, as it'll be well forgotten by when it's time to buy the game, in addition to being an open invitation to break the NDA) doesn't conflict in any way with inviting those that actually support the game.

Except that those people viewing will play anything they play so its good free marketing for the game and a lot more people wanna try the game out now. I'll say it one more time you only needed an active account to apply and SE is allowed to invite anyone they want. Also for the 4th or 5th time Yoshi stated a long time ago he wanted to target inactive players for the alpha/beta.

[SkyeWindbinder]

I'm sure they have their reason. Just as much as they had their reasons to release FFXIV the way they did. This doesn't and shouldn't prevent me or anyone else from telling them "hey, SE, your reasons and priorities are all over the place".

The fact that they didn't invite all their most loyal supporter, does, in my opinion, show that they don't value their feedback enough. Other companies manage to do so, so it's possible. They just chose not to, and that's the problem.

Now come on, Abriael, you're comparing apples to step ladders. Having released FF14 in 1.0 is not the same as not inviting all the loyalists in to test beta. That's like saying not inviting all the loyalists in to test beta is the same as the people who steered the Titanic deciding to "Go ahead and plow past that iceburg, it won't hurt anything". FF14 being released as it was was a terrible mistake for many reasons. Not letting all the people who were loyal to FF14 in to test alpha, not so much. At most, they have a few people who are disappointed they didn't get selected to test the alpha stage of a game. Big deal.

Not letting all the loyalists in may mean to you that they don't value the feedback of loyalists enough, but it's just an opinion. One that, of course, I have to disagree with. Besides, what about the loyalists who DID get in? So, according to them, SE does value the opinion of their most loyal fans. See where your argument has laws? Your disappointment is clear. So is mine. But let's not fly off at the handle and judge SE to be "doing it wrong" just because we ddn't all get an invite. As I said before, I'm sure they have their reasons for doing it the way they did. I'm also sure they are aware of who the loyalists are, and I'm sure they knew there'd be some disappointed people who didn't get into alpha. They've dealt with this sort of thing before, I'm sure. They've been around, you know? lol

[Abriael]

Now come on, Abriael, you're comparing apples to step ladders. Having released FF14 in 1.0 is not the same as not inviting all the loyalists in to test beta. That's like saying not inviting all the loyalists in to test beta is the same as the people who steered the Titanic deciding to "Go ahead and plow past that iceburg, it won't hurt anything". FF14 being released as it was was a terrible mistake for many reasons. Not letting all the people who were loyal to FF14 in to test alpha, not so much. At most, they have a few people who are disappointed they didn't get selected to test the alpha stage of a game. Big deal.

That doesn't really matter. Both are decisions that were made with a reason, and both the decisions and reasons are subject to criticism. That's a paying customer's prerogative.

Not letting all the loyalists in may mean to you that they don't value the feedback of loyalists enough, but it's just an opinion. One that, of course, I have to disagree with. Besides, what about the loyalists who DID get in? So, according to them, SE does value the opinion of their most loyal fans. See where your argument has laws? Your disappointment is clear. So is mine. But let's not fly off at the handle and judge SE to be "doing it wrong" just because we ddn't all get an invite. As I said before, I'm sure they have their reasons for doing it the way they did. I'm also sure they are aware of who the loyalists are, and I'm sure they knew there'd be some disappointed people who didn't get into alpha. They've dealt with this sort of thing before, I'm sure. They've been around, you know? lol

Them having "Been around" didn't prevent them from making mistakes in the past, just as many other companies. Unfortunately experience doesn't work as an automatic vaccine for mistakes.

SE may value the opinion of *a percentage* of their loyal customers. But in my opinion (and obviously I'm not alone there), not allowing *all* their loyal customers to provide proper feedback of the alpha means that they don't have that opinion in a sufficiently high consideration.

Since other companies have managed to pull that off without a hitch. I'm in my right to think that SE isn't doing enough on that front.

Of course it's an opinion. Criticism almost always is.

Are you paying for it right now or did you pay at any time the alpha was running?

When the fee is discontinued by the provider unilaterally the qualification of paying customer isn't lost, unless the service isn't discontinued as well. The service is continuing (and this very forum, to which only paying customers can access, is part of it) and SE suspended billing unilaterally, so the qualification isn't lost.

I only see him...

LOL. You need thick glasses.

There have been several people that have agreed with me, and there continue to be. Your reading is extremely selective according to personal convenience, I see, just as your application of the "spammer" definition.

[SkyeWindbinder]

That doesn't really matter. Both are decisions that were made with a reason, and both the decisions and reasons are subject to criticism. That's a paying customer's prerogative.

Well, if you wish to compare not letting loyalists of FFXIV test alpha to one of the biggest and deadliest disasters of all time, then that's up to you. I mean, I personally find such comparisons to be ludicrous and a bit of an insult to those involved in such a tragedy, but liek you said, it's your perogative. Do as you please. I mean, I'm pretty disappointed I didn't get invited into alpha either, but I'm not comparing my situation to that of those wo were on the Hindenburg. (shrug)

Them having "Been around" didn't prevent them from making mistakes in the past, just as many other companies. Unfortunately experience doesn't work as an automatic vaccine for mistakes.

Nor does immediately pandering to the whim of loyalists. For example, take Bioware's Star Wars: The Old Republic. Everyone and their mother got in to test that game, including loyalists of Bioware who had been playing their games since, like, forever. And now, SWTOR is free to play. Hmm...

SE may value the opinion of *a percentage* of their loyal customers. But in my opinion (and obviously I'm not alone there), not allowing *all* their loyal customers to provide proper feedback of the alpha means that they don't have that opinion in a sufficiently high consideration.

But how would you know what percentage of their fanbase SE values? I mean, if you're basing that off of the fact that a few loyalists got into the game, then what about the ones who got in that weren't loyalists? See, it works both ways. People, loyalists and otherwise, were chosen to test the game. Now, in your opinion, SE does not value the opinion of their loyal fanbase because not "all" of the people who regularly play their games got in. In MY opinion, that is a ludicrous reason to assume such a thing. Think about it, would you still be saying SE doesn't "value the opinion of loyal customers" if you actually got in to test alpha? I'm betting no. and really, who says only customers who have been playing FF14 for such and such long time would be able to provide proper and adequate feedback? Maybe they were selected on different terms, like how good or bad their computer specs were, or what region they were in. Who knows? Liek I said, I'm sure SE had their reasons.

Of course it's an opinion. Criticism almost always is.

Forgive me, but I find your criticism to be a bit unreasonable. Of course, that too is an opinion.