Lost faith in Yoshi-P?

[Hyrist]

(I felt this was the core point so forgive me if I ignored something important)

What concrete concept would you consider that "one thing" to be? SWtOR and LotRO had a massive backlog of lore to build around but they fell into obscurity not to long after release and inevitably ran to F2P as a means of continuation. Conan had lore and nudity. Guild Wars 2 has beautiful visuals and a dynamic quest system but that's only doing fair. Tera too has attractive visuals and action based gameplay, but it's not very popular. DCU has all of DC comics behind it but people left that game bored.

So what does XIV ARR offer? The "one thing" that will prevent mediocrity? The fact that it was once so much worse isn't going to keep people invested. And while the environments, visuals, and story will no doubt be fantastic, it probably won't keep people around for too long.

Don't take this personally, I just think it's something we have to think about before celebrating.

Good question and I never shy away from that point.

The "One thing" often differs from game to game, but I'll point it out for the ones that were lacking.


LotOR did not feel very apt to its environment. They went through great lengths to attempt to create a world of Lord of the Rings and marry it with an MMO concept, even to draft the evasion/stamina based mechanics they toted at the beginning. While it keeps a fair share of players involved (In this case FTP was a smart business change for them, not a failing.) It simply did not hold the feeling of deep connection that the books and movies have captured.

SWtOR had an entirely different problem. The story content was rich and involving, and their moment to moment quest system was well done in this regard. But there was nothing keeping the player there after their initial story was done. They had over-invested in the personal story and not enough in providing lasting life to the environment - particularly in the endgame situation.

But let's get into the Questing system. The 'big let down' that is raising so much concern. All MMOs have this bread and butter questing system. Guild Wars 2 attempted to bypass it, but it still exists in the heart system. They tried to replace it by creating an active time quest. Events happen and you follow them along to gain exp and currency, etc.

The problem is, this takes away from the personal journey of it. Some quest strike out more than others, though live quests will always make you feel as part of the crowd. And the Personal Story arc, unfortunately, isn't as compelling, though it is quite entertaining (Especially if you follow the Order of Whispers path).

Square Enix is taking the traditional system of questing in MMOs, adding their own personal touch to them (FFXI style questing modernized with long standing issues addressed). On top of having the occasional FATE occurring, ala Guild Wars 2's event system, to keep things varied.

Granted, I agree. This is far too early to celebrate what has not yet been shown, but so to, is it far too early to throw in the towel. The core endgame systems, which are the true meet and potatoes of any MMO, has not been shown, and I'm critical of SE for not diving right into showing them off.


"The Hook" is elusive because it's not the same for each game. The people who still play LoTR or SWtOR, will argue with you that the game still has their hooks, and that you should give it another chance for it to sink into you.

However, a lot of people here discussing these things, even those wavering, are already hooked. They're just not in the depth of it to experience those addictive qualities.

Just as saying "It's a Final Fantasy" might ring hollow to you, until you watched the End of an Era trailer, or did a Primal Battle and went "Oh... yeah, that's Final Fantasy."


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Slowly but surely I'm seeing the painting Yoshida is trying to make here. The picture of a day in the life of A Realm Reborn. If you're interested I might share it with you.

[Gramul]

Good question and I never shy away from that point.

The "One thing" often differs from game to game, but I'll point it out for the ones that were lacking.


LotOR did not feel very apt to its environment. They went through great lengths to attempt to create a world of Lord of the Rings and marry it with an MMO concept, even to draft the evasion/stamina based mechanics they toted at the beginning. While it keeps a fair share of players involved (In this case FTP was a smart business change for them, not a failing.) It simply did not hold the feeling of deep connection that the books and movies have captured.

SWtOR had an entirely different problem. The story content was rich and involving, and their moment to moment quest system was well done in this regard. But there was nothing keeping the player there after their initial story was done. They had over-invested in the personal story and not enough in providing lasting life to the environment - particularly in the endgame situation.

But let's get into the Questing system. The 'big let down' that is raising so much concern. All MMOs have this bread and butter questing system. Guild Wars 2 attempted to bypass it, but it still exists in the heart system. They tried to replace it by creating an active time quest. Events happen and you follow them along to gain exp and currency, etc.

The problem is, this takes away from the personal journey of it. Some quest strike out more than others, though live quests will always make you feel as part of the crowd. And the Personal Story arc, unfortunately, isn't as compelling, though it is quite entertaining (Especially if you follow the Order of Whispers path).

Square Enix is taking the traditional system of questing in MMOs, adding their own personal touch to them (FFXI style questing modernized with long standing issues addressed). On top of having the occasional FATE occurring, ala Guild Wars 2's event system, to keep things varied.

Granted, I agree. This is far too early to celebrate what has not yet been shown, but so to, is it far too early to throw in the towel. The core endgame systems, which are the true meet and potatoes of any MMO, has not been shown, and I'm critical of SE for not diving right into showing them off.


"The Hook" is elusive because it's not the same for each game. The people who still play LoTR or SWtOR, will argue with you that the game still has their hooks, and that you should give it another chance for it to sink into you.

However, a lot of people here discussing these things, even those wavering, are already hooked. They're just not in the depth of it to experience those addictive qualities.

Just as saying "It's a Final Fantasy" might ring hollow to you, until you watched the End of an Era trailer, or did a Primal Battle and went "Oh... yeah, that's Final Fantasy."


---------------------------------------------

Slowly but surely I'm seeing the painting Yoshida is trying to make here. The picture of a day in the life of A Realm Reborn. If you're interested I might share it with you.

The concept of Final Fantasy is a very open ended subject. While Final Fantasy may have connecting tropes, characters and themes, they are mostly very different games with varying degrees of popularity and fanbases. "It's Final Fantasy" is a wild card as far as hooks go.

I guess the best thing we can do right now is wait till more is revealed and voice our concerns when we have them.

And I would love to hear your ideas on Yoshi's overall concept.

[Gentaro]

Slowly but surely I'm seeing the painting Yoshida is trying to make here. The picture of a day in the life of A Realm Reborn. If you're interested I might share it with you.

Tell us :3

[ZakarnRosewood]

Tell us :3

I think she was speaking as Yoshida when she said "If you're interested I might share it with you." Could be wrong but that's how I read it.

[Gentaro]

We probably will find out soon btw how comes i've never seen you on sargatanas <.<



If the FATE system isn't revolutionary compared to the similar systems in Rift and GW2, I don't see it playing an important role in ARR...

I guess the best thing we can do right now is wait till more is revealed and voice our concerns when we have them.

It will be too late then, because this game only has one chance left - lets hope it works out
But how the game is supposed to become it settled by now, i doubt they will make many changes in their plans.

[strallaalaa]

it probably has less of a 1 chance, figure it this way in new mmo's most people try to at least get all the gear in endgame but if this game totally crashes and burns on first month again everyone and there momma's will probably quit b4 repeating content a 100times. is why i'm getting frustrated with mmo's in general ...endgame feels like a bummer when there is no concept of future content to use that gear in. it's like you "beat the game" and mmo's aren't supposed to feel that way.

[ArkNova]

My wife got a alpha invite so I've been watching her play a bit and so far I like what I've seen. The combat was what has me excited and can't wait for ARR to come out. 6 months ago I would of told you I don't think a reboot could save this game but now I think I could be wrong. Yes I have faith in Yoshi but I also have a lot of faith for the people that no one ever mentions enough of and that's the dev team, so really I have faith in the Yoshi Clan.

[Levian]

The point where I lost faith in Yoshi-P? Well, I haven't per se. The game is vastly different now than it was even when the servers were shut down, judging from the snips and videos they've been releasing. It's certainly shaping up to be on par with the other MMOs out there so Yoshi and his team are delivering a good game.

But there lies the rub. I quit WoW because I was tired of the monotony. Quest grind to level cap. Then quest grind dailies for money, run instances for gear to begin raiding. Continue quest grinding for money throughout raiding process. Raid and quest grind until next expansion when you return to quest grinding for level progression. A circle that remains unbroken to this day so far as I know.

I quit SWTOR at level 30-ish because, while the gameplay was good, and the quests were tied to the story and felt meaningful...at the end of the day they were still gofer quests. Go fer this, go fer that, kill x of this this and that, rinse wash repeat. To someone that has fetch quested a minimum of an hour a day - for years - there's no amount of dressing up or prettifying you can do to make it palatable, or even tolerable.

I picked up FFXIV, not because I wanted FFXI - 2, but because I didn't want yet another reiteration of WoW. The original claim that they'd learned from FFXI, and would be incorporating a little of this and that from other popular MMOs and blending it with their own style to create something different. But it's looking to me like there is more of what everyone else is doing, and less uniqueness as time goes by.

I have full faith that Yoshi will deliver a good game. Whether or not it'll be the next MMO for me is where the uncertainty lies. This much I can say though...my days of fetch questing are done. If there's no viable alternative to fetch questing for xp this probably won't be for me. But there's no way to be sure until ARR goes live.

[ZakarnRosewood]

We probably will find out soon btw how comes i've never seen you on sargatanas <.<



If the FATE system isn't revolutionary compared to the similar systems in Rift and GW2, I don't see it playing an important role in ARR...




It will be too late then, because this game only has one chance left - lets hope it works out
But how the game is supposed to become it settled by now, i doubt they will make many changes in their plans.

i played solo for the most part cause every linkshell i joined ended up disbanding. that and i am on the west coast of canada and i dont play till after 9 my time so everyone is offline for the most part. hope this new server setup will help with that.

[Davorok]

... And while the environments, visuals, and story will no doubt be fantastic, it probably won't keep people around for too long.

I may be in the minority of RPG-MMO players (although I think I am not) and I may not be SE's target audience for FFXIV (although I think I am), but what you just described is exactly what keeps me interested in an MMO (or any game for that matter).

I am one of those "It's the journey, not the destination" type of players. Sure I want solid Battle Mechanics and Epic Gears and that feeling you get when you finally get that piece of armor and/or weapon you've been drooling over for months, but every decent game has those things.

The reason why WoW, Rift, SWToR, Guild Wars, etc never got me "hooked" was because I did not care for (or about) the overall "Worlds" in which they took place.

FFXI was the exception. I cared about that world and to some extent many of the NPC's that inhabited it.

That is what SE is generally pretty good at...creating a "world" that has heart, drama, sadness and elation. I just hope they hired some really good scriptwriters for the Main Scenario and sidequests. I wouldn't mind if they reworked the Class/Job quests too.

Admittedly, the 2 quests we saw in the recent video were nothing to garner awards for and I expect some trash quests but I also expect some very involved quests as well.

I remain hopeful that they won't disappoint. They have a pretty good track record (except for XIV 1.0)