Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Hyrist]

No one is disputing that classes are here to stay, and it's pretty lame that you tell people to quit the game and play something just because what were talking about may or may not be considered. This is as much our game as it is yours. You should respect those terms.

This isn't your game, this isn't my game. This isn't our game. This is Square Enix's game. Is it built for us? Yes, but we do not own it. There will be design decisions people will disagree with, but will not change. And if they disagree with it venomously enough, it becomes a determent to the community to hear them sit and scream endlessly about it. And if it is a game-breaker for you, it is best that you leave instead of remaining to gripe. It is better for the plaintive, as it quickens the time they'll actually find a game that suits them, and it is better for those who don't need to hear the complaints causing unneeded tension in the forums.

For situations not so extreme there needs to be a deciding point where people learn to just hush up about things they don't like, but will tolerate, especially when you know you will make no headway. Otherwise, you're just blowing steam for the sake of blowing steam and it gets on the nerves of more than just myself. It's just self-gratification at that point, and there's no actual discussion to be had.

And I won't pretend to be tolerant of that sort of behavior. I consider it a base courtesy to know when to bow out quietly and let the lack of a subscription do the talking, and I did so with FFXI. And this is where we're at with the Class system, even if you disagree with it. It is here to stay, it is not going to be eliminated because people see it as a flawed. Instead of insisting on your way and no others, it is better instead to seek a compromise. If you are beyond compromise, you are beyond reason and should not be taking part of what should be a civil discussion.

The argument about making a class have two different weapons, that have two different ability sets is redundant. If they go that far to give a weapon all the bells and whistles to make it its own, it might as well be a new class entirely. And Gladiator will stay Gladiator, and great sword will stem a new class.

That is a possibility, but, one that may not necessarily be the case when things are dolled out pragmatically.

Let's talk possible progress routes for a class bearing more than one weapon type. Gladiator is the best example because of how dramatic the differences are.

Instead of considering a full on ability set swap. Some enhancing skills or even weapon skills (Such as Goring Blade) can be shared between the two weapon types. Of course, in the case of Gladiator this might mean giving them additional neutral abilities to chose between, but we did ask for a larger library of skills that define jobs and classes.

Let's assume that we have 2 jobs per class when the system is fully developed.

We can have a set of skills that are neutral between two weapon types and may or may not be usable by each job.

Then we can have skills unique to that weapon style of class and its corresponding job.

We can already chose to differentiate ability libraries depending on what job you equip. (For Example, a Dragoon only has access to Pugilist and Archer skills.) This can be done further by limiting what class skills are available within that said class when converted into a Job. (Of course the trade off would be more skills unique to the Job itself.)

There's lots that can be done to flush out the system and make it more viable. This concept of cutting things out because you don't like it, when really thus far it's been primarily optional to use it to begin with, makes me wonder what the motives behind such complaints really are. I don't know if it's just ignorance or a desire for simplicity, but the intent to cut out content really does seem like players want to hamstring themselves from better gameplay.

[GodseijuroHiko]

This isn't your game, this isn't my game. This isn't our game. This is Square Enix's game. Is it built for us? Yes, but we do not own it. There will be design decisions people will disagree with, but will not change. And if they disagree with it venomously enough, it becomes a determent to the community to hear them sit and scream endlessly about it. And if it is a game-breaker for you, it is best that you leave instead of remaining to gripe. It is better for the plaintive, as it quickens the time they'll actually find a game that suits them, and it is better for those who don't need to hear the complaints causing unneeded tension in the forums.

Interesting straw-man, turning what he said into literal ownership. Yes, that's exactly what he was talking about... Anyway, the same can be said about the people who feel tense due to people's complaining. We all know people sometimes complain needlessly correct? Why not just tell them to just avoid the forums?

You should probably take this time to bow out due to lack of headway. People will continue to state their opinions.

"This isn't your FORUM, this isn't my FORUM. This isn't our FORUM. This is Square Enix's FORUM. Is it built for us? Yes, but we do not own it. There will be OPINIONS people will disagree with, but will not change. And if they(YOU) disagree with it venomously enough, it becomes a determent to the community to hear them sit and scream endlessly about it. And if it is a INTERNET-breaker for you, it is best that you leave instead of remaining to gripe. It is better for the plaintiff, as it quickens the time they'll actually find a THREAD that suits them, and it is better for those who don't need to hear the complaints causing unneeded tension in the THREAD."

I must admit, I felt some sort of childish satisfaction using your quote for my own needs. It didn't sound any less silly when I said it however, it probably sounded worse...

You really should give it up. People share differing opinions. Get used to it. If you are unable respond without twisting their words or attacking them, mentally demonize them and enjoy your day.

Anyway, everything you proceeded to suggest had already been suggested by others before. We've long since accepted that classes are here to stay. People still feel the way they feel and should be allowed to state why. The handful of people who've been posting here pretty much all agree that an overhaul is needed and we are awaiting more information. For now, we're sharing our thoughts on the topic.

2 jobs per class wont work currently with the information we have. 1:1 seems like the best fit for the time being unless various weapon types alter abilities and traits. Since MMO's battle system is important this topic excites me as well as others.

I think expecting massive changes this late in the game is pretty pointless but is still exciting to talk about, at least for me (love what if conversations).

However there have been some more minor suggestions in here that I think are worth a look. Of course Yoshida may already have them implemented (or way better ones) - really want some ARR news on the battle system >,>

[Felis]

Oh I'm sorry, did you miss the part where the developers directly asked us for any/all feedback on the game we could give them?

But they don't want feedback about FF XIV 1.x anymore. They want now feedback about FF XIV ARR.
And you can't give feedback if you didn't have played it. You can only give suggestions and wishes.

[Jynx]

But they don't want feedback about FF XIV 1.x anymore. They want now feedback about FF XIV ARR.
And you can't give feedback if you didn't have played it. You can only give suggestions and wishes.

...Sorry just let me.

Oh I get it, everyone should be quite because we aren't in Alpha...everyone stop posting quick we can't discuss amongst ourselves and the developers are obviously not even at all slightly interested in what anyone outside of the alpha has to say.

Just because I don't have alpha access doesn't mean that I am unable to give feedback on what I currently know, if the developers are massively changing the class-job system currently in alpha good for them...I still don't see how that gives you any reason to try and muzzle conversation between the community members.