Why do we have classes AND jobs again?

[Colvin]

**Talks in linkshell "Anything going on I'm bored?"

I still think this is a content problem. Expecting old level grinding to take the place of content does not work for everyone (or even the majority Id believe). There should be enough new content released with the job that you dont have to feel like you are bored. They could make, for instance, DRK a 15-20 quest process instead of 5. That would keep you busy.

[Imoen]

I still think this is a content problem. Expecting old level grinding to take the place of content does not work for everyone (or even the majority Id believe). There should be enough new content released with the job that you dont have to feel like you are bored. They could make, for instance, DRK a 15-20 quest process instead of 5. That would keep you busy.

It's always been a content problem, leveling wouldn't be considered "grinding" if it was more fun. As of right now I have to level summoner to see the low level changes or I will never see them. Especially if we get this "just hand me a job at 50 thing." lol I agree though more quests would help it but even 15-20 seems a bit easy, I just want to feel like I worked for my job, otherwise I don't really see the point in even having levels to begin with, why not just start us all at 50 and be like "HAVE FUN!"? lol

[Colvin]

I don't really see the point in even having levels to begin with, why not just start us all at 50 and be like "HAVE FUN!"? lol

not that I am advocating that here but there are games that do that.

Additionally, I think the leveling process is fairly antequated in general, at least in MMOs. The point of the leveling process in RPGs has always been so your character has the sense of growing with the story. In MMOs you dont grow WITH anything. It is just you mindlessly banging away at regenerating monsters. Having a class-specific storyline that you can go through to grow as an individual is far more interesting IMO reguardless of length.

It has been years since I liked grinding, but I really felt it when I was playing BLU mage. I loved the story to unlock the job, and the going out and learning new abilities was fun (for the most part) because it didnt take nearly as long to do, but still had an investment. Either way it wasnt just another set of me going out there and hacking away at things. The actual physical leveling of the BLU really seemed to weigh me down at that point like "oh.. I better go out there and grind the next 10 levels so I can learn abilities" I didnt care less about the grinding, it was the ability gaining I liked.

[Imoen]

not that I am advocating that here but there are games that do that.

Additionally, I think the leveling process is fairly antequated in general, at least in MMOs. The point of the leveling process in RPGs has always been so your character has the sense of growing with the story. In MMOs you dont grow WITH anything. It is just you mindlessly banging away at regenerating monsters. Having a class-specific storyline that you can go through to grow as an individual is far more interesting IMO reguardless of length.

It has been years since I liked grinding, but I really felt it when I was playing BLU mage. I loved the story to unlock the job, and the going out and learning new abilities was fun (for the most part) because it didnt take nearly as long to do, but still had an investment. Either way it wasnt just another set of me going out there and hacking away at things. The actual physical leveling of the BLU really seemed to weigh me down at that point like "oh.. I better go out there and grind the next 10 levels so I can learn abilities" I didnt care less about the grinding, it was the ability gaining I liked.

Right which is the content problem, if levels are just gained through mindless killing, and boring drag on quests then its going to feel like a boring grind. There is no reason you couldn't have job related quests as you are leveling to break up monotone, also sprinkling in this Idea of active time events in areas for exp plus low level dungeons makes it more fun.

The thing I like about leveling is, it prevents you from participating in end game right away, you have this "level up process" which promotes learning of the job/class (You gain the one ability and then that you can play with for a while before obtaining the next) and you have the excitement of obtaining new abilities soon and gear (Which yes the quest thing does this... but that's easy if you're already 50 and you just steam roll w/e quest it is and smack them all down right in a row in the portion of a few hours.) If the content was laid out as I said above it could be a lot more interesting and fun, and maintain a sense of something to work at and look forward to as you see other high levels of your chosen class/job around you.

[Colvin]

The thing I like about leveling is, it prevents you from participating in end game right away, you have this "level up process" which promotes learning of the job/class (You gain the one ability and then that you can play with for a while before obtaining the next) and you have the excitement of obtaining new abilities soon and gear (Which yes the quest thing does this... but that's easy if you're already 50 and you just steam roll w/e quest it is and smack them all down right in a row in the portion of a few hours.) If the content was laid out as I said above it could be a lot more interesting and fun, and maintain a sense of something to work at and look forward to as you see other high levels of your chosen class/job around you.

I think perhaps our opinions are closer than we think and we are getting mixed up in the semantics of where numbers are being applied.

[Imoen]

I think perhaps our opinions are closer than we think and we are getting mixed up in the semantics of where numbers are being applied.

They are the same, the only difference being that Quests don't create a barrier for end game content short of your party getting pissed off that you don't have steel cyclone (**arbitrary example--which they may not even know if you don't tell them) Being level 35 trying to join a 50 8 man does.

[Rhomagus]

not that I am advocating that here but there are games that do that.

Additionally, I think the leveling process is fairly antequated in general, at least in MMOs. The point of the leveling process in RPGs has always been so your character has the sense of growing with the story. In MMOs you dont grow WITH anything. It is just you mindlessly banging away at regenerating monsters. Having a class-specific storyline that you can go through to grow as an individual is far more interesting IMO reguardless of length.

It has been years since I liked grinding, but I really felt it when I was playing BLU mage. I loved the story to unlock the job, and the going out and learning new abilities was fun (for the most part) because it didnt take nearly as long to do, but still had an investment. Either way it wasnt just another set of me going out there and hacking away at things. The actual physical leveling of the BLU really seemed to weigh me down at that point like "oh.. I better go out there and grind the next 10 levels so I can learn abilities" I didnt care less about the grinding, it was the ability gaining I liked.

While it's sort of six one way half a dozen the other that does seem to be the main draw to leveling. I personally prefer gaining abilities over stats a lot more. I prefer things that actually change the way I play rather than the effectiveness in which I play the same as I did ten hours ago.

I also agree with how in traditional rpg's the experience system was made to show how your character grew with the story and how applying that same mechanic to an MMO doesn't quite fit. Judging by what Yoshida said about the progression in 2.0 it actually looks to be moving in that direction. I wonder how that's going to work.