[dev1002] The entire world lacking as a battle environment.

[Physic]

Death penalties just make people a bunch of pansies. The op admited to hiding in the basement of the ferry. I had that same story, except we fought the damn skeletons. and we won! (of course when sea horror popped and one shotted me i didnt end up making it to bubumiru...) What made that exciting for me was not the fear of losing exp, it was the new exciting thing that happened unexpectedly and facing that threat, wondering what rewards i might get for doing these difficult tasks. People in FFXI by an large played like a bunch of punks, people were afraid to try difficult things *by and large until someone else came along and figured out how to do it. People kissed peoples butts and tried to just get in on something once some linkshell figured out how to do it with minimal death, most people ran from challenges, or begged for help for 10 hours.

Death penalty doesnt make people play better. Death penalty does people not want to die, but that usually translates into playing like bunch of punks and getting mad all the time because someone else killed you. Adding challenge to fights is definitely needed, but death penalty doesnt add challenge, and you reach points where people dont care, or are expected to deal with it. FFXI had death penalties, and yet the expected techniques for finishing content often involved killing yourself. Truth is no FF has needed a death penalty to be considered difficult other than 11. The only penalty comes if your whole party dies, or whatever special situational condition isnt met, and in challenging game, if everyone dies, your probably going to have to start from scratch, but that is as easy a monster getting its hp back in 2.5 minutes if no one has agro.

And yeah the dude is right, its a bad idea to try to make this game ffxi-2 because that game already exists, its still commercially viable, they need to hit the people who got tired of the same old, or want something new. They still get the 11 lovers money with 11. Really they should just update all the graphics to 11 to keep that market going. But this game should be something different, otherwise it has no reason to exist. most other FFs are a far departure from the one that came before it.

[Bre]

Death penalties just make people a bunch of pansies. The op admited to hiding in the basement of the ferry. I had that same story, except we fought the damn skeletons. and we won! (of course when sea horror popped and one shotted me i didnt end up making it to bubumiru...) What made that exciting for me was not the fear of losing exp, it was the new exciting thing that happened unexpectedly and facing that threat, wondering what rewards i might get for doing these difficult tasks. People in FFXI by an large played like a bunch of punks, people were afraid to try difficult things *by and large until someone else came along and figured out how to do it. People kissed peoples butts and tried to just get in on something once some linkshell figured out how to do it with minimal death, most people ran from challenges, or begged for help for 10 hours.

So you state that "we fought the damn skeletons. and we won!" yet contradict yourself by saying "Death penalties just make people a bunch of pansies. The op admited to hiding in the basement of the ferry." Clearly it does not as YOU stated YOU fought them, and won! Good job! You got a group together and faced a challenge.

Did you feel accomplished, was it exciting because IF YOU DIED there was a risk and penalty (you can say no, but there is no argument it clearly adds to the game, making you angry doesn't mean it had a negative affect), and IF YOU WON there was a reward? You wanted to see what drops they had? You felt like trying something new?

Great Job, I am two sentences in and am not going to waste my time going any further with your post...

This game needs to stop catering to children and people who want a mindless zergfest and everything handed to them on a silver platter. Prime example: Little red sunshine's. When I logged in after the update and saw this I couldn't help but think to myself 'you have got to be kidding, did everyone wake up and get on the short bus this morning?'

Walking up to a mob the first time and having it aggro you should do two things:
1) Put you at risk (when you die, it shouldn't just HP you and set you on a 2 min timer, that's pathetic)
2) Teach you a lesson so you can LEARN and CORRECT yourself in the future, its called progression its what these games are about.

The death penalty is only one minor aspect, the game needs a thrill even the minor events like running from a mob and escaping (not the run 10 ft and it returns kind). This is one minor detail for a very broad subject.

[Xzen]

So you state that "we fought the damn skeletons. and we won!" yet contradict yourself by saying "Death penalties just make people a bunch of pansies. The op admited to hiding in the basement of the ferry." Clearly it does not as YOU stated YOU fought them, and won! Good job! You got a group together and faced a challenge.

Did you feel accomplished, was it exciting because IF YOU DIED there was a risk and penalty (you can say no, but there is no argument it clearly adds to the game, making you angry doesn't mean it had a negative affect), and IF YOU WON there was a reward? You wanted to see what drops they had? You felt like trying something new?

Great Job, I am two sentences in and am not going to waste my time going any further with your post...

This game needs to stop catering to children and people who want a mindless zergfest and everything handed to them on a silver platter. Prime example: Little red sunshine's. When I logged in after the update and saw this I couldn't help but think to myself 'you have got to be kidding, did everyone wake up and get on the short bus this morning?'

Walking up to a mob the first time and having it aggro you should do two things:
1) Put you at risk (when you die, it shouldn't just HP you and set you on a 2 min timer, that's pathetic)
2) Teach you a lesson so you can LEARN and CORRECT yourself in the future, its called progression its what these games are about.

The death penalty is only one minor aspect, the game needs a thrill even the minor events like running from a mob and escaping (not the run 10 ft and it returns kind). This is one minor detail for a very broad subject.

Sorry but for a lot of people like the one your responding to the death penalty means nothing and has no effect on the enjoyment of the game. Thats why the people that seem to be for it hide while the people that it doesn't add a sense of danger for just go for it. It doesn't add anything it's just an annoyance to us.

[DarthTaru]

First of all let me say that it brings me a certain joy to hear that so many XI veterans enjoyed reading my opening post. I certainly enjoyed writing it because to do so I got to reflect back on it.
It goes without saying that XI veterans, whether hardcore Tiamat Trouncers or casual socialites, seem to have a sort of bond between them that I do not see in other MMOs. It was such an amazing odyssey from beginning to end, defined mostly by the memory of our friends. "Community" defines us, to be sure.

That is likely why it's so difficult to listen to the WoW invasion force swarm the FFXIV forums and tell us what does and does not make a great game. We know what makes a great game. We've played one. It was called Final Fantasy XI.

I'm reading through all of these posts that claim a penalty for death adds nothing to the game; that it only hinders your progression and wastes your time. Well, quite honestly, I don't know what it is you get out of MMO's. I don't know what MMO's you've played (although I have a few good guesses!) and I don't really care.

What I do know, is that in Final Fantasy XI, when making a desperate escape from a monster above and beyond our capabilities, I sincerely appreciated the efforts of, say, the Paladin, who provoked the mob of his fleeing comrades and perhaps even died to see that the rest of us survived. Under your system, that doesn't impress me in the slightest.
One needs only visit youtube to see the difference in mentality. In every World of Warcraft remembrance movie i've ever seen, it was nothing but a bunch of CS's, snapshots, and raid zergs, while in the Final Fantasy tributes (which seem to vastly outnumber the WoW) it is a montage of friends.

As for hiding from a lvl 70 NM Pirate and his crew of lvl 40 pirates... Ya, I was a level 10.
Even Gandalf the Grey knew it was time to run when the Balrog made his grand appearance. The book and movie would have been pretty lame if Frodo just chopped through everything he encountered. But that goes back to what I said Final Fantasy was about, and that's the journey. I didn't hide from the pirates forever.

Later on, when my friend wanted a drop from the NM, Captain, they seemed to hide from me.

[SogiYa]

That is likely why it's so difficult to listen to the WoW invasion force swarm the FFXIV forums and tell us what does and does not make a great game. We know what makes a great game. We've played one. It was called Final Fantasy XI.

you damned hypocrite.

[Xzen]

First of all let me say that it brings me a certain joy to hear that so many XI veterans enjoyed reading my opening post. I certainly enjoyed writing it because to do so I got to reflect back on it.
It goes without saying that XI veterans, whether hardcore Tiamat Trouncers or casual socialites, seem to have a sort of bond between them that I do not see in other MMOs. It was such an amazing odyssey from beginning to end, defined mostly by the memory of our friends. "Community" defines us, to be sure.

That is likely why it's so difficult to listen to the WoW invasion force swarm the FFXIV forums and tell us what does and does not make a great game. We know what makes a great game. We've played one. It was called Final Fantasy XI.

I'm reading through all of these posts that claim a penalty for death adds nothing to the game; that it only hinders your progression and wastes your time. Well, quite honestly, I don't know what it is you get out of MMO's. I don't know what MMO's you've played (although I have a few good guesses!) and I don't really care.

What I do know, is that in Final Fantasy XI, when making a desperate escape from a monster above and beyond our capabilities, I sincerely appreciated the efforts of, say, the Paladin, who provoked the mob of his fleeing comrades and perhaps even died to see that the rest of us survived. Under your system, that doesn't impress me in the slightest.
One needs only visit youtube to see the difference in mentality. In every World of Warcraft remembrance movie i've ever seen, it was nothing but a bunch of CS's, snapshots, and raid zergs, while in the Final Fantasy tributes (which seem to vastly outnumber the WoW) it is a montage of friends.

As for hiding from a lvl 70 NM Pirate and his crew of lvl 40 pirates... Ya, I was a level 10.
Even Gandalf the Grey knew it was time to run when the Balrog made his grand appearance. The book and movie would have been pretty lame if Frodo just chopped through everything he encountered. But that goes back to what I said Final Fantasy was about, and that's the journey. I didn't hide from the pirates forever.

Later on, when my friend wanted a drop from the NM, Captain, they seemed to hide from me.

You've made a poor assumption. I do not like WoW and I am a FFXI veteran.