Future Endgame gear vs crafted gear with Materia.

[Xikeroth]

Hey everyone

This actually greatly concerns me because of the current trend of FFXIV as someone that wants to see this game succeed and grow in population to the point that Yoshi-p hopes.

Currently gear fully slotted with materia (or slotted with at least 3)is unrivaled in many occasions. That's fine since the game is unfinished and doesn't really have anything worth mentioning as far as endgame goes, however as the game evolves I do see quite the issue since Yoshi-P plans to add a lot of content as well as pvp.

The major thing that needs to be considered, the vast majority of MMO players do not care about crafting nor do they want to feel forced to do it with the current materia and repair system I kind of feel like I have to or I'll end up spending literally millions on one item that isn't even worth the price.

The major problem here is that when people do endgame raids, when people pvp they want to see rewards directly from those. They want to see gear upgrades that are better then anything they can buy, including crafted items.

The reason this is an issue is a lesson that should have been learned from FFXI seems to have gone ignored and they seem to be overcompensating for the uselessness of most crafting in FFXI by making it almost required or at least feel required.

That lesson is, very few people if any will do an event or kill enemies just to do it if there is no real reward from it.

If materia is made more powerful or endgame/PVP rewards aren't as good as as gear slotted with 4-5 materia, I hate to say it but the majority of the worlds MMO community will just not bother which means content won't be done which means less subscribers.

CoP proves this in the fact that very few people have seen a benefit from Al'tieu in FFXI so it was the least done portion of endgame in FFXI next to HNMs with no real drops. Abyssea further proves it since almost no one went back to older content because it was "useless" Keep in mind most people that play in abyssea couldn't cut it in the older content for the most part.

SE could easily keep crafting very useful by either making new gear for newer content that crafters can make, or by making older ones(at the level cap) dated and allowing every craft to make the same item with upgraded stats. So for example The cobalt tanking set would have higher defense, hp, vit and so on then the one from the patch before.

This is a simple solution and does help keep crafting involved, materia also wouldn't suffer since people would buy these items if they couldn't get the gear from the previous set of content.

Lets all keep in mind they are clearly NOT following the FFXI model since its basically proven to not work in terms of major MMOs go, other MMO developers don't even see SE as a competitor in the MMO industry.

I do want to see FFXIV succeed but they won't if all they do is cater to crafters. The majority of the worlds MMO players want battle-related content, not to sit in the city and hit an anvil or play with a saw.. and in order to do that gear from endgame content and PVP needs to be the best for what its made for, nothing wrong with crafted gear coming close, but it shouldn't be better, even with full materia slots.

[Chardrizard]

Alot of raid gears are BiS, what are you tlking about? Unless you have triple to quad meld which is extremely rare and justifies their strenght..

Primals are still the best after relic...

[Xikeroth]

Alot of raid gears are BiS, what are you tlking about? Unless you have triple to quad meld which is extremely rare and justifies their strenght..

Primals are still the best after relic...

I'm saying that crafted gear need to always fall second to endgame/pvp content gear(which yoshi-p said he was putting in the game) at all times, like no belt is going to rival a belt with 2 enmity+ materia for a tank, some items can have a lot more of a stat on it due to materia making it better than anything from that slot.

And clearly triple to quad meld isn't THAT rare I see it very often.

This is a concern for the future that may not be seen by the dev team, and it kind of needs to be thrown out there. Its also some stuff in that would help crafters as the current level of items become more useless. More items need to be made or upgraded versions of current items should be released.

[Amsai]

Alot of raid gears are BiS, what are you tlking about? Unless you have triple to quad meld which is extremely rare and justifies their strenght..

I dont know about others but I do........ I wouldnt use that trash Darklight gear for most slots, there are 1 or 2 exceptions though I suppose. Which just means he makes a good point. Its a good thing I do like running the dungeons for fun and challenge. There was never anything wrong with crafting or materia, but SE made a mistake when they made it where materia'd gear can be the best. Common sense is to stick with the norm of dungeon drops always being the best, but seeing as SE didnt learn this obvious lesson (obvious to most every other mmo), we are stuck with it. However, it can be rectified if they start making dungeons drop rare materials used to craft superior gear that can then be melded. Its not what I would have prefered and its a bit sloppy, but it would work better than /poof: "Dur I just crafted/melded my way to the best gear". /upchuck reflex.

Primals are still the best after relic...
This I can agree with. The question is can we trust SE to continue this good trend *cough Darklight cough*..... guess not?

Anyways, I mostly agree with the OP. But sure why not just humor SE so they think they are doing right, that will help a lot.

[Yucie]

I agree.

I'm not a rich player - but I'm slowly in the process of finding cheap, melded gear upgrades for all 3 of my 50s since I don't have a shell that does regular 'endgame' such as CC or AV, thus no access to DL (which I would still very much like to obtain, esp. for DRG and PLD).

I think that most gear obtained from dungeons and things should always be best-in-slot, as opposed to the current trend of most good gear having to be crafted and melded. I hope that this trend will hit some kind of downward spiral after 2.0 takes off. I'd rather work for my gear, than have to farm and spend countless millions on melds that are only worth a fraction of that amount.

[Asiaine]

Hello,

I'm not sure it is fair to say 'the vast majority' do not care about crafting. Per the player's poll:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...IX-(06-04-2012)

Only about 31% of players do not care about crafting. A sizable minority, but not a vast majority.

Although the majority of people may want battle related content, that is not to say that they do NOT want non-battle related content. It is reasonable for one to want both, and there to be enough interest in both. Again from the poll:

20.3% of people have a Level 40+ crafting job (therefore a keen interest in crafting)
20.8% of people have a Level 40+ gathering job (therefore a keen interest in gathering)

In fact, only 7.3% of people said they had no interest in gathering. Therefore one could say only 7.3% of people had an interest in battle-related-only content?

But, putting aside the possible mis-proportion of how many people want what, and dig into the premise of your argument:
Yes, people tend to do things only if there is a tangible reward.
Yes, people want more super douper better than tho gear.
Yes, I can see an argument where 'if crafting gear is always better than loot why go through dungeons'.

However, presently that is not the case:
Depending on your setup, sometimes looted gear is better than crafted. Sometimes crafted (3x meld, etc) is better than looted. Also there is a (in my opinion) valid argument: Do you want to pay 20M for gear, or go through the dungeon and get something of equivalent.

There is room for both Crafted and Looted gear (as well as Grand Company gear) as it is now up to you in how you want to get your rewards. Some prefer to do dungeons and get the nice items. Some prefer to do caravan runs and buy it in the store. Some have oodles of Gil (or time to farm) and wish to buy crafted items (or craft it themselves).

There is room for all approaches. There is also, of course, the opportunity to marry all the approaches. For example:
Craft: Souper Douper Blade Of Look At Me
Requires: Rare metal, dropped in dungeon
Requires: Rare metal, farmed from mines by a miner.
Requires: Rare potion, bought from Grand Company for seals.

Combine all three to get your item. Everyone is kept involved, and everything is kept relevant. We already see the hint of this when it comes to Relic Weapon:
Buy item from grand company for 25k seals.
Find rare items in dungeons.
Buy (or make) your own Class Specific double melded weapon.

And it seems to work (ignoring the details of how one has to repeat content to get the individual items, just focusing on the three approaches resulting in one item).

[bobbygunz]

Crafting is a pretty big drawcard to this game too, so they just need to keep both elements of the game relevant. Which is somethign S.E. had already achieved earlier with the Dodore Doublet and Barbarian Bardiche type recipes. With a slight mod to the Request-meld system, then that type of crafter-input could work for untradeable items too (i.e., a request craft system). This way boss-drops and crafting could co-exist with or without materia. But what would I know, I didn't type an unnecessary wall of text like everyone else.

[HoolieWho]

I'm saying that crafted gear need to always fall second to endgame/pvp content gear(which yoshi-p said he was putting in the game) at all times, like no belt is going to rival a belt with 2 enmity+ materia for a tank, some items can have a lot more of a stat on it due to materia making it better than anything from that slot.

I disagree. In fact, I think the current balance between raid/primal gear and melded crafted gear is pretty good. Some slots are skewed more one way or the other, but overall you see people with a mix of crafted and non-crafted gear.

And clearly triple to quad meld isn't THAT rare I see it very often.

I don't wander around Uldah examining random people, but I've never seen a quad meld. I have no doubt it's out there, but I bet it's rarer than the rare Darklight pieces. Triple meld is hard enough to deserve its place as some of the best gear in the game.

[Eliseus]

I feel like you pretty much read what I posted in another section then re-posted here lol.

[Chardrizard]

The discussion is over when OP said triple meld isnt rare, let alone quad meld, those are prolly close to non existent.