Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Zdenka]

17m time doesn't really bother me that much for a garuntee'd drop especially since you only need to achieve it 3 times. -25m is really just a no wipe run, pretty easy to do.

My LS average run times right now are

AV: 21-22
CC 17-18 (best 16:11)

For CC is just a matter of less messing around to consistently hit <17.

For AV I know how we can shave off 5 minutes, but it makes it more headaching but 3 times only won't be too bad. We stop and SS in a lot of places since we run 1 healer entire raid (we run 1 healer entire CC raid also) and use THM. We can shave 4-5m off by doing 2 WHM at start and not getting Red Fruit and just running through with regen to keep us alive and then by also not getting Red Fruit at the end / sleeping the diremite pack that we usually kill so we can get Red fruit. Benchmarks for 17m run would be CC at about 53m, kill 51, MM engage at 46, kill at 43.5ish.

On our 17mish CC runs we usually reach princess room at 54-53m, kill 52-51, engage Chim at 48-47ish.

Since you only need to do these <.>;; type runs 3-5 times for your entire LS I don't think its too bad if this makes it 100%

[Airget]

Well said Murugan, Velhart.

As a fan of racing games, I recognize the challenge of Speed / Clear Times. Beating a section of the Nürburgring with a Koenigsegg CCX in under XX:XX minutes is a great challenge in Gran Turismo.

So, of course a Speed Run under 17 Minutes requires skill and efficiency, but is that really the best method for providing a challenge for players for this Relic Quest, and for Final Fantasy XIV in general?

It's certainly the easiest, laziest way for the Dev Team to implement some "new challenge" for the Relic Quest, but it's poorly thought out in terms of providing a meaningful new gameplay experience.

As Murugan said, having encounters with stuff like "great saves" or "last stands" or being ambushed (truly surprise ambushes), new boss encounters, alternate paths, shifting environments, puzzles, alternate routes, or other variables / challenges would be far more welcome than just shaving more time off the clock.

It's true, the majority of the FF XIV population probably won't be able to complete this 17 minute challenge, but one would hope they designed a better step for the Relic Quest at this point (and in general).

Man, never knew those megaman speedruns meant nothing skillwise...

People are complaining cause the variety of the "challenges" aren't to their liking but what's to say that the upcoming update won't have some insanely difficult NM in which people will be complaining that "this is to hard how am I suppose to have to skill to beat this NM" just wait it'll happen tomorrow to anyone who's completed all the objectives. SE will prolly add some insanely strong NM and people will complain that it's to strong and wonder why they can't add more things which rely on luck or speedrunning it.

We have Hamlets (skill and luck)
We have materia (luck)
We have class weapons (skill and luck)
We have melding (luck)
Kill x Beastmen NM (skill)
We have the dungeon speedruns (skill) o_O if the 100% drop rate is true for under 17 mins

So ya, looks pretty balanced to me there's room to show your luck and room to show your skill. Of course those with more gil will be able to press their luck more but those with less gil will have issues at said point. Just wait though, I bet they'll be a flood of complaints tomorrow when they see how "difficult" they make the final challenges that they are to challenging and require to much skill to beat.

[MeowyWowie]

Are you guys serious? 80+ pages of people bitching about shitty drop rates, and now you finally get a way to get 100%, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, drop rate, yet you still bitch? Claiming that speed & efficiency =/= skill?

If you don't think this requires skill and coordination you are in serious denial. Please post your 17 min SR5C videos. I'd love to see how unskilled you need to be to achieve this.

[Chardrizard]

There is no pleasing some people.

[Scytale]

Wow I think this whole quest has become the most ABSURD thing I've seen in recent memory. If SE came out and said the final part of the quest involved breaking your pt into groups of 4 and fighting Ifrit and Garuda at the same time, and had to kill both exactly at 1200, I wouldn't be suprised...

Yoshi-P, here's two options. I'll let you get a full running sprint and kick me in the junk, or you can sleep with my wife. Other than that, I honestly never see myself finishing this...

What a shame. Congrats to those who end up finishing, you will be the 1% of the 1%.

[Skies]

Are you guys serious? 80+ pages of people bitching about shitty drop rates, and now you finally get a way to get 100%, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, drop rate, yet you still bitch? Claiming that speed & efficiency =/= skill?

If you don't think this requires skill and coordination you are in serious denial. Please post your 17 min SR5C videos. I'd love to see how unskilled you need to be to achieve this.

Still a fully BS-y requirement! I seriously dislike it.
However, I do agree it involves a high degree of aptitude at execution to perform that speedrun. I presume also a sufficient level of preparation.

I still think it's utter bullshit because speedruns are far from fun, Darkhold was neat as long as it was the only speedrun around.

[magenta_taco]

http://www.youtube.com/user/7777pingu?feature=watch

easy peezy lemon squeezy.

[Darkillumina]

Still a fully BS-y requirement! I seriously dislike it.
However, I do agree it involves a high degree of aptitude at execution to perform that speedrun. I presume also a sufficient level of preparation.

I still think it's utter bullshit because speedruns are far from fun, Darkhold was neat as long as it was the only speedrun around.

I really don't think it requires aptitude. It just forces cookie cutter set ups.

AV: Until Coin-Counter, 1 tank, 4 black mages for burning the rooms down as fast as possible, 2 white mages for regen and one bard. That is the only feasible way to get past the two poison rooms quickly. This is absolutely non-negotiable. You cannot clear AV in under 17 minutes unless you use a similar set up.

CC: 2 Tanks until Princess, 3 Black Mages, 2 white mages and a bard. Sub one Tank for a black mage after Princess. Burn everything down as fast as possible. Again this is non-negotiable.

Great game design there. SE wants to move away from this but they keep going back to it. Why? The community has largely expressed their disillusionment with Speed Runs. So what does SE do? Add a (potentially, I don't buy the 17 min req) even more laborious speed run.

Great job SE.

Judging by the flames in this thread and others since the relic quest was released I would bet my life SE is regretting releasing them at this point in the games life-cycle. Just as I predicted.

[Murugan]

Are you guys serious? 80+ pages of people bitching about shitty drop rates, and now you finally get a way to get 100%, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, drop rate, yet you still bitch? Claiming that speed & efficiency =/= skill?

If you don't think this requires skill and coordination you are in serious denial. Please post your 17 min SR5C videos. I'd love to see how unskilled you need to be to achieve this.

I'm not satisfied with the endgame content (hamlet defense, and dungeons). They are boring, and not the type of challenge I enjoy. Several endgame players I know, respect, and would like to play FFXIV with have quit because of how disappointing this content has been. Sorry if that offends you, but I want better content after 2.0 and not a repeat of these systems and mechanics. They are sub par compared to every other MMO I have played, including FFXI.

Timers for an entire dungeon is lame and yes is lazy. There is no reason for us to "time attack" it, no reasoning in the story or dungeon design or anything except the artificial clock they tacked on. So is requiring players to spam hamlet defense for Relic, because the content is not fun or challenging. This type of content alone is worth complaining about, you add in a drop rate that encourages you to do it constantly and it hurts the whole endgame experience.

I don't know anyone who truly loves farming AV/CC or hamlet, for the most part they just endure it because they want the drops.

[MeowyWowie]

I'm not satisfied with the endgame content (hamlet defense, and dungeons). They are boring, and not the type of challenge I enjoy. Several endgame players I know, respect, and would like to play FFXIV with have quit because of how disappointing this content has been. Sorry if that offends you, but I want better content after 2.0 and not a repeat of these systems and mechanics. They are sub par compared to every other MMO I have played, including FFXI.

Timers for an entire dungeon is lame and yes is lazy. There is no reason for us to "time attack" it, no reasoning in the story or dungeon design or anything except the artificial clock they tacked on. So is requiring players to spam hamlet defense for Relic, because the content is not fun or challenging. This type of content alone is worth complaining about, you add in a drop rate that encourages you to do it constantly and it hurts the whole endgame experience.

I don't know anyone who truly loves farming AV/CC or hamlet, for the most part they just endure it because they want the drops.

Why did you quote me to say this? In no part of my post did I mention anything about unique, fun or engaging content.

I agree, I think the content we have now is pretty boring with the exception of Garuda, but it is what it is, filler content. However, people saying that this is not a challenge are just kidding themselves.

That JP video has been out for quite a while, someone posted it months ago. Still, to this day, I have NEVER seen another 17 min AV video, or even claims of any other LS, JP or otherwise, completing this task. It may be easier now with class adjustments, but it's still by no means an easy task.