What can SE learn from Bioware's failing Star Wars MMO?

[Keramory]

Thing is, I havent seen a great MMO release since WoW/FFXI...period. Some were for sure, better than others, but none seemed to last long aside hardcore fans of what have you. This is especially true for releases. FFXIV flopped harder then SWTOR did, by loads more. Non insanely challenging/long term leveling MMOs simply get snagged eventually because they zoom through and hit all the content within a few months...then get bored.

SWTOR was and is an amazing game. The voice acting, cutscenes, leveling and combat were all better then any MMO I've played thus far. Its main issue, and someone nailed it on the head, was its lack of challenging endgame content. The flashpoints were fun, but very limited after a while. SoA was the hardest thing to beat, but even then became fairly easy. I'd say SoA is as hard as AV but AV is shorter.
This and the fact FFXI/FFXIV ruined the idea of one class a character for me. I had no motivation to make more characters after my Jug hit 50. Leveling on the other side was alright, but I was still basically doing the same leveling quests over and over from before. With FFXI/FFXIV ... and I believe this to be its single best thing, I could switch classes with my one character. This by far is the best function I've ever seen, and games without it seem meh and not worth it to me.

[Sagagemini]

For me it already is. I barely remember the times when I had to go back to an aetheryte crystal like every ten minutes because I had no MP anymore. XIV really has come a long way.

I've been playing the game since the Alpha, so it's kinda hard for me to forget about all the crap i've been through. lol
But it sure is nice to see the game evolve.

[Duelle]

Like someone said, WoW caught lightning in a bottle. They found the balance of casual play and hardcore play. Making it so you can gather your Valor Points anytime of the week, you just had a weekly cap instead of the old way of getting 120 a day if you were on everyday. It catered to casuals because instead of feeling forced to be on everyday, you could get whatever you wanted done on the weekend and still make the same progress as a hardcore. Of course, ultimately hardcores succeeded over casuals with hard mode raids.

Let's not forget class balance as well. Being able to do the content as any class/job you want and still being useful was a huge boost for raiding. Players are happier when they can play the role and spec they want over being forced into what used to be known as a "raiding spec" back in TBC.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

I think SE need only look at its own past mistakes and stay the current course. 2.0 will be the game ffxiv fans and devs should have released and after it does 1.0 will become a vague memory.

We all know it should have been FFXI 2.0 that they should have released.

[Elexia]

Let's not forget class balance as well. Being able to do the content as any class/job you want and still being useful was a huge boost for raiding. Players are happier when they can play the role and spec they want over being forced into what used to be known as a "raiding spec" back in TBC.

Can do this now in both XI and XIV, the only problem is elitist who want the easiest way out.

[Agoven]

What an MMO needs for sustainability? What WoW has that no other MMO has?

If you new to WoW there's a lot to do a whole lot. WoW has that going for it...the there's years of content there for you to complete. If you new to any other MMO you got a content problem.

How to curb the problem for FFXIV?

More DYNAMIC Hamlet Defense. Good trending for the future of this type of content. PvP...

Pet breeding...

Mini PvP games...

Will there be another MMO as huge as WoW? Unless a company can create many years worth of content or include a time sinker.

Coliseum PvP Ladder Tournaments...just a thought for the future.

FFXIV is heavily focused on end game content yet it's end game comprises...3 primal fights, 3 hamlets, 3 instance raids, 4 strongholds...

How many hundreds of times have you all done those?

This generation of gaming folk have very short attention spans...

[Duelle]

Can do this now in both XI and XIV, the only problem is elitist who want the easiest way out.

And what I was getting at is that the devs should do their best to remove that easy way out.

Though XI's jobs are not interchangable. Can't swap a DRK out for a THF and still perform on the same level. Can't replace a SAM with a BST and perform on the same level. WHM and SCH aren't exactly interchangable either. Which is leagues away from the raid losing nothing if your melee DPS include a Ret Paladin, Combat Rogue and Frost Death Knight because the raid still performs near the same as if they had a Fury Warrior, Unholy DK, and Assassination Rogue. Or the raid not being shackled to a resto Shaman for raid heals and a Holy Paladin for tank heals.

XIV's hasn't quite gotten there yet.

[Zumi]

MMO market is really flooded these days. There are many free to play games for people to pick from as well. Free to play games aren't nessassiry bad but the reason they make more of a profit then most pay games is you get that one guy usually 1 out 5 whos willing to dump tons of cash into the cash shop which would pay for like 10 peoples subscriptions.

Also SE made the classic Everquest 2/ Lineage 2 mistake. Releasing a direct sequel to an already popular MMO. Thus splitting the playerbase and seeing a decline in both games. Blizzard was smart in a way because they never did this. They just keep updating WoW.

SE is going to release Dragon Quest X which is a MMO for the Wii in August 2nd and for Wii U when it comes out. This will split their JP player base for FFXIV and FFXI even more so. Dragon Quest games are huge in Japan and most JP players actually prefer playing MMOs on consoles rather then PCs as seen by how many preferred to play FFXI on PS2. SE has no plans for a NA / EU release of Dragon Quest X. This is sure to make a lot of those JP only people happy. I wouldn't be surprised if this game does better then FFXIV there.

So yea they are really killing themselves with over-saturation of the market.

[Velhart]

MMO market is really flooded these days. There are many free to play games for people to pick from as well. Free to play games aren't nessassiry bad but the reason they make more of a profit then most pay games is you get that one guy usually 1 out 5 whos willing to dump tons of cash into the cash shop which would pay for like 10 peoples subscriptions.

Also SE made the classic Everquest 2/ Lineage 2 mistake. Releasing a direct sequel to an already popular MMO. Thus splitting the playerbase and seeing a decline in both games. Blizzard was smart in a way because they never did this. They just keep updating WoW.

SE is going to release Dragon Quest X which is a MMO for the Wii in August 2nd and for Wii U when it comes out. This will split their JP player base for FFXIV and FFXI even more so. Dragon Quest games are huge in Japan and most JP players actually prefer playing MMOs on consoles rather then PCs as seen by how many preferred to play FFXI on PS2. SE has no plans for a NA / EU release of Dragon Quest X. This is sure to make a lot of those JP only people happy. I wouldn't be surprised if this game does better then FFXIV there.

So yea they are really killing themselves with over-saturation of the market.

Dragon Quest X here will be inevitable. Will we play with JP is another question though. The Dragon Quest series sells well over here, not to the extent in Japan, but it makes good sales here. Dragon Quest 8 had really good sales, along with the DS ports. Not to mention DQ9 was a huge success here.

I am sure there would be a good NA/EU playerbase here, but I highly doubt we would see the Wii version come here, but very possible to get the Wii U version, which may be for the best. Wait for it to polish up a bit and get it in a better HD resolution.

[Mishakai]

Ya know, I was just thinking about the OP and title of the thread, and just had to throw this out there..

I don't think SE could possibly learn anything from Bioware. In fact, this thread really should be on TOR's general forums titled "What Bioware could learn from SE on how to save an MMO". But I think the forum mods would lock/delete it before it even got a single reply.

I've said it many times. When XIV launched, I was not a happy customer at all. It was when SE took action, publicly admitted their mistakes, and made good with the people who purchased the product by giving us a free year while they fix it that kept me.

Most other companies would give some line about product not meeting expectations, pointing to market trends and using language that investors like to hear. SE came out and as gamers, told their customers publicly that the product doesn't live up to their expectations, nor that of the franchise, and that they WILL make it better. And, much like a lot of other people I'm sure, I kinda rolled my eyes and said whatever...

Until they actually did it, and involved us in every step of the process.

It really boils down to customer service ya know. Treat your customers good, and they will reward you by purchasing your product/service. Fail to do that, and people will go where they feel they are being treated like a person, not a subscription.