Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Kiara]

Hi All,

Just wanted to post my results from an entire weekend of grinding Hamlet Defense. I'll post 2 sets of results - one for the individual (myself), and one for what the party got (8 people):

*** 25 Hamlet Defense Victories ***
[3 Victories were Gold Chest = 50,000+ Points (due to some minor mixups, we just fell short of the Best Chest]
[22 Victories were "Highest Rated Coffer" / Best Chest = 65,000+ Points every time]

* My Progress / Results *

• 0 (ZERO) Primal Seals = 0 / 25 [<-- Demoralizing, ZERO Progress Toward Relics]
• 2 Militia Hats, 3 Militia Barbuts, 2 Militia Armets, 2 Militia Gauntlets

* Entire Party Progress / Results *

• 5 Primal Seals = 5 / 200 [Note: 8 People's Individual Chances * 25 Runs]
• At least 1 Militia Hat, Barbut, Armet for every single 65,000+ run we did. 4 Militia Gauntlets, 1 Militia Caligae.

And that's an example of the "wonderful" Random Number Generator at work. I'm glad to hear some people getting Primal Seals "all the time," but for the groups I ran with, it was simply DEMORALIZING and mind-numbing.

It got so bad, that 2 separate JP people during the weekend runs with me created Party Chat Macros (with hilarious JP ASCII Faces laughing at essentially "Yet ANOTHER Militia Hat / Barbut / Armet again?!" dropping).

So "yes" the new 60,000 Best Chest in Hamlet does have a 100% Guaranteed Drop... except it's of a Militia Barbut, Hat or Armet (depending on the Hamlet you go to). They're becoming more ubiquitous than the dreaded Cutter's Cry Thormoen's Subligar. It's certainly *not* a Primal Seal.

One of the JP people I was running with has been a Top 20 Contributor multiple times since Seals were added and through this weekend? 0 (ZERO) Primal Seals earned.

And yet we have people having gotten their Soiled Promissory Note (9 Primal Seals) already done.

How is any of this "skilled" or motivating or even fun?

It's not.

As others have said, I'd rather Yoshida-san measure out whatever amount of time he wanted to keep the average player busy and divide that up amongst # of runs and please give us *Consistent Measurable Progress* each time we continue on the Relic Quest.

I'd rather it be, for example,

* Prove Your Valor: Defend the outlying Hamlets from Beastmen Forces 200 Times (Earn 200 "Militia Totems") [And EVERYONE gets a 100% chance to get 1 Militia Totem each Victory.]

Instead of the Random Number Generator we have now.

I suppose if you run with a Static Party each time, you'd just give all the Seals to one person (leader) and then another and another and get it that way.

But it's just brutal for those of us NOT on the side of the Lucky Dice Roll.

In closing again, we're NOT asking for anything to be "easy" or "faster":

We just want a system with more Consistent, Measurable Progress (like a Totem / Point System) that recognizes EVERYONE'S effort for each Victory they attain.

And ideally, steps to the Relic that actually reward more Skill / Effort / Grant Interesting Challenges, than just forcing players to Double Meld Materia, or run Hamlet Defense ad nauseum.

Thanks~

[Sigmakan]

This is a somewhat related thought. The whole needing 3mil to hit level2 is kinda dumb. You're locking out content for the majority of the week because of some stupid convoluted game mechanism. I get that they want to make DoL/DoH important part of this by contributing Militia items, but people are still going to be fighting over top20 (assuming its Lv2) so there will always be a need for that. Not getting level2 really hurts Hamlet, as it makes it pointless for that 25 hour span. Just lower the Lv2 requirement to 1mil so people can start working on their seals everyday of the week. Not everyone has time to marathon through a weekend to get seals.
/endrant

Oh Kiara, the chest is shared amongst everyone, its not an individual chest. So as a group you guys went 5/25 (which is about average). Sucks that none fell to you :/ Did the seal drop rate seem higher for 60k+ runs?

[Orophin]

Wow, reading over all those steps and actually seeing the stats for the weapons, I kind of don't even want to bother. I know they have to keep us occupied till the end of the year, but damn...

[Molly_Millions]

I'm probably just gonna try to get a triple melded Demi Moore axe and call it a day. This quest is absolutely ridiculous.

[Estellios]

I just wanted to throw out my opinion for any devs that may gander at this thread. I have no problem with the Materia melding part of the quest, personally, since in most dedicated LS's there is going to be someone who can gather or craft the items in question and spiritbonding can be done whenever with whoever.

My issue with the hamlet defense portion is really that the entire group doesn't benefit and it stinks having to lump the items into one person. If you do increase the amount of seals required and make them 100% drop (when you reach a certain score?) please allow everyone participating to get one so that everyone feels like they are progressing and pickup groups happen more often. Considering how long this takes it is only fair that everyone putting in their time gets to benefit.

That was probably my biggest issue with the Relic system in FF11, you needed 30-60ish people and a ton of money all for a single person's item and that is asking way too much from a group and is just asking for drama and backstabbing and the like. It would at least make my group feel better as when we are able to group up it would be great to feel like the entire group is getting somewhere and we can share our victories as well as feel better about helping out the ones that aren't able to log on as often due to work and family.

So yea, to summarize please redesign the current content and design future content around the entire group progressing with each victory.

[Kiara]

This is a somewhat related thought. The whole needing 3mil to hit level2 is kinda dumb. You're locking out content for the majority of the week because of some stupid convoluted game mechanism. I get that they want to make DoL/DoH important part of this by contributing Militia items, but people are still going to be fighting over top20 (assuming its Lv2) so there will always be a need for that. Not getting level2 really hurts Hamlet, as it makes it pointless for that 25 hour span. Just lower the Lv2 requirement to 1mil so people can start working on their seals everyday of the week. Not everyone has time to marathon through a weekend to get seals.
/endrant

Oh Kiara, the chest is shared amongst everyone, its not an individual chest. So as a group you guys went 5/25 (which is about average). Sucks that none fell to you :/ Did the seal drop rate seem higher for 60k+ runs?

Hi Signakan,

Great point about Hamlet Level 2 contribution. Totally agree. During the week, you can see that people are just busy / realize they might not get enough contributions (or they're fighting to be Top 3 on the weekend) so no one contributes. Which leads to it being pretty empty / wasted during weeknights (at Level 1).

Good point about the chest being shared with everyone. I guess I wanted to present it in light of all 8 People and their Efforts / Rewards / Progress.

It takes 8 people to get in and beat Hamlet with a great score, and even if it's shared, for 8 different people, their results are basically "0" unless the Seal fell for them. So out of 200 Chances for 8 People, only 5 Seals dropped the entire weekend for numerous attempts.

I didn't feel like the Seal Drops were increased for the Special Chest at all. Towards the end of all 3 days, everyone was just throwing away the Militia Barbut / Armet / Hat because everyone had one already.

[DeadRiser]

This is great. Once I can actually randomly get the seals from Hamlet, I get to spend 200k mil on an already double melded class specifc weapon.

I can't wait ^^....


>.>

[Reinheart]

One thing I read on the JP side talking about relic weapons which I kinda agree now knowing how much effort it takes to get one

Why show job concept, images, 2.0 images all images with he job characters using these weapons if they are so hard to get? Kind of made players think the weapons comes with AF gear/quest.

Then goes back to my original thinking where AF weapons were pretty simple to get like the AF gear then from there you build up on to change the looks/stats more by advancing through more hardcore/crazy quests as level cap increases which only handful of people will ever see and those who can't/give up can go back to crafted weapons and still attempt materia melding on those which should be easier than the hardcore version of the AF weapons. But again initial AF weapons being pretty simple to obtain at first for the looks but not too good in stats at beginning stage.

But anyways back to RNG topic...~

[Madruk]

Just wait until you see the next steps, it will probably add another 40 pages to this thread.

[Orophin]

Then goes back to my original thinking where AF weapons were pretty simple to get like the AF gear then from there you build up on to change the looks/stats more by advancing through more hardcore/crazy quests as level cap increases which only handful of people will ever see and those who can't/give up can go back to crafted weapons and still attempt materia melding on those which should be easier than the hardcore version of the AF weapons. But again initial AF weapons being pretty simple to obtain at first for the looks but not too good in stats at beginning stage.

I would think that obtaining the first renditions (not the crappy ones with no stats) of the AF weapons wouldn't be so tedious to obtain. Upgrading them past this should be the challenging part. This feels like the equivalent to doing one phase of the relic weapon quest in FF11 due to the RNG of drops, HQ synth materials and successful melds, however the stats on the weapons don't seem to be THAT much of an upgrade over the current best.

Not to mention we haven't even had a level cap increase yet, so who knows how quickly these will become obsolete until a new quest is put in at the next level cap.