Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Kiara]

To: Yoshida-san and the FF14 Team

Seeing the requirements for just opening up the Quest for the Relic Weapons (not even earning the final Relic), I have one plea:

* Please STOP relying on the "Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate" to use as a Time Sink to keep the players busy.

We realize you have to keep the players busy while you work hard on 2.0. Many of us are *fine* with Long Term Goals and needs to draw out content.

But NOT through the current "Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate" style of rewards we've been suffering through from Ifrit Weapons to Darklight to Materia Melding and Primal Seals, and now with the rest of the steps of the prerequisites for the Relic Weapon Quest (and this isn't even the final step).

For those that don't know, thanks to Sniper and other veterans we've confirmed that the steps just to activate the Relic Weapon Quest are:

Step 1 - Earn 25,000 seals and buy the key item "On the Properties of Beastmen"

Step 2 - Obtain Inferno Seal x3, Tremor Seal x3, Vortex Seal x3 from Rank 2 Hamlet (gold chest requiring 60K+ scores) [<-- Note: Random Number Generator. Blind Luck on getting drops for yourself (or getting Dark Matter).]

Step 3 - Talk to Rowena and Exchange for a Soiled Promissory Note

Step 4 - Go to Gerolt and start Quest "A Relic Reborn"

Step 5 - Gather HQ mats and craft or buy Class-Only Weapons (preferably HQ) [<-- Note: Random Number Generator. Blind Luck on getting the HQ Materials from gathering, and even the Final Synth isn't a guaranteed 100% for most crafters, so you're rolling the dice.]

Step 6 - Double meld the gear with 2 Tier IV Materia of a specific Type as follows: [<-- Note: Random Number Generator. Blind Luck on getting roll for Double Melding this already painful synth.]

PLD = Mailbreaker + ? (Most Likely +HP based on AF stats)
MNK = Avengers + Manathirst IV (+MP)
WAR = Rampager + Touch of Rage IV (Emnity)
DRG = Obelisk + Savage Might IV (Crit Attack)
BRD = Sarnga + Heaven's Eye IV (Accuracy)
WHM = Alkaurops + ? (Most likely Mind based on AF stats)
BLM = Astrolobe + Hell's Fist IV (Magic Potency)

Step 7 - Kill chief NM of one specified Stronghold.

PLD =
MNK = Flamefist in Zaha'rak
WAR =
DRG =
BRD =
WHM =
BLM =

Step 8 - Gather 3 Materials from 6th Chest available at end of AV and CC Run
Items: Miser's Mythril (Aurum Vale), Alumina Salts (Cutter's Cry) [<-- Note: Random Number Generator. Blind Luck on getting drops for yourself (or getting Dark Matter).]

Step 9 - ?

Yoshida-san, this is essentially just "Rolling the Dice / Gambling / Playing the Lottery." It emphasizes REPETITION and DUMB LUCK to stretch out content.

I realize you can't create brand-new, detailed Story-based Missions that are full of Unique Monsters that we'd have to take down (for example, Chains of Promathea's Story Missions (early days)) since you're focusing on 2.0.

But using Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rates to make things last longer *doesn't* make the content or rewards "difficult." It's simply the easiest, most mind-numbing way to stretch out content.

How about *rewarding* players for their *effort* and *skill* instead?

Here are some quick ideas using your CURRENT ASSETS (with minor work at best) that would make the Relic Weapon Prerequisites more fair and based on Player Effort and providing CHALLENGE:

• Prove Your Skill & Teamwork by: Defeating Aurum Vale & Cutter's Cry without dying (no deaths).

• Prove Your Tenacity and "Learn" to bond with your Weapon by: Defeating 500 Enemies (Equal Level or Higher, or whatever specific Mob) with your "Broken (early) Pre-Relic Weapon."

• Prove Your Valour by: Defeating Certain "New" Notorious Monsters (NMs):
  • Infected Great Buffalo: Re-use the SAME Buffalo NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Uraeus: Re-use the SAME Uraeus NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Mosshorn: Re-use the SAME Mosshorn NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Dodore: Re-use the SAME Dodore NM Model, but buff it up.
  • "New" Guivre / Drake NM: Re-use the *awesome* looking Guivre / Drake monster (we already have in-game), but scale it up 20% and balance the damage on its moves.
    
    For those that have never ventured to the farthest reaches of Eorzea, you should walk around and see these awesome looking creatures we have in-game. The Doomvoid Guivre, for example, looks amazing and glows when it attacks, etc. SE can easily turn this into an "NM" with some tweaks, without having to make a brand-new Model.
    
    http://ffxiv.zam.com/Im/image/177621
    http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Fi...voidGuivre.png

• Defeat All *3* Beastmen Strongholds using your "Broken Pre-Relic Weapon" Without Dying.

• Overcome the "Secret / Reverse Path" of [Dzemael / Cutter's Cry / Aurum Vale]" and gain the [Enchanted Item] at the end to continue. This would be re-using our current Dungeons, but let's say after you clear it (going forward), a new "Gate" highlights and you open up a Side Path (or run the dungeon in Reverse) with BUFFED UP Mobs, new Objectives, etc. (using the same mobs as before), etc. (Obviously Boss placement would be at the "end" of the new path / reverse dungeon path.)

• Incapacitate All Body Parts from [Certain NM] and Defeat them: This would challenge players to work on destroying various Body Parts of an NM before defeating them, and it would emphasize, weaving in and out, avoiding attacks from various sides, overcoming the Adds perhaps, while breaking down a Boss.

I'm not saying these are the best ideas (at all), but they all are MUCH BETTER than rolling the dice and playing the Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate game that you have now.

Even the mundane task of "killing 500 Enemies" that I listed (with your broken Relic) is at least a *measurable* task that EVERYONE can gain the benefit from.

The key point is that it's much more palatable, encouraging, and desirable to know that you are making positive progress each time you effort, instead of just hoping and praying that you get the lucky DICE ROLL and you happened to get your drop for a Primal Seal (which you need 9 of from 3 separate Hamlets (that need to be in Stage 2, that need a 60,000+ Point Total, and that has a low drop rate), or a drop for your HQ Mats to craft one of the new hard Synths (Class Weapons), or you get the lucky roll for your Double Melding Materia on that Weapon to turn in.

And in addition to measurable progress (like a Point System, or # of Kills, or Ancient Currency (like Dynamis)), is the hope of something that also rewards more Skill and Effort instead of just pure dumb luck.

Yoshida-san, the new 2.0 Screenshots and Artwork and your new Interviews are all wonderful and encouraging, and it gives us hope.

But then at the same time, we get punched in the gut with YET ANOTHER "RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR / Dumb Luck / Gambling / Rolling The Dice" task with the Relic Weapon Upgrades.

Please reconsider the Quest Path for Relic Weapons, and especially for the *majority* of 2.0 End Game Content.

And note that we're *NOT* asking for everything to be "easy" or "given to us fast." Long Term Goals are OK (and I love them)! But we need to have Rewards Systems that actually reward Player Skill and Effort and provides Good Challenge, instead of just making us SPAM / Throw Ourselves at a certain task over and over and hoping for a Blind Luck Dice Roll.

There's NO skill in praying that you can Double Meld 2 Tier IV Materias onto your costly Class Only Weapon. It's just gambling and rolling the dice.

Same for hoping you get 9 Primal Seals dropped into your inventory, spamming the same Hamlet Defense over and over.

2.0 shows *so* much promise. Please don't ruin our expectations and demoralize us with any more of this Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate-style content.

Thank you!

[TheVedis]

If you want a better drop rate

youll have to accept long cooldowns for re-entry into instances

thats the tradeoff we got for being able to do things the way we do it now

[Jynx]

I hope you understand the RNG is going to be part of everything you do in some way / shape / form.

Luck is always going to have a factor in things. Hell Relic weapons aren't even massively related to RNG for the most part aside from needing a handfull of items dropped and a sucsessfull materia meld. Unfortunatly the game NEEDS time sinks at the moment wether you like it or not it's pretty much all we are going to get content wise until 2.0 releases and they don't have developement focused in two areas.

Relic upgrade quest was easy to implement because it uses currently existing game mechanics and content.

Hell even your list of suggestions has alot of "Luck" based elements in it.

[Psion]

I'm in favor of a karma system myself: same low drop rates, but for each run you do without getting the drop, the odds of it dropping go up for you. So if it starts out at a 1% drop rate, and you don't get the item that run, the next time you win, it will be a 2% drop rate, and if you fail, a 3% drop rate, and so on, until you get the drop. Then it will reset to its base % rate.

This essentially is a points based system, but it still has a factor of luck. In this case however, there's no such thing as "bad luck" where you can go for thousands of runs without getting what you need: eventually, it WILL hit 100% drop rate and you will get the item.

You can adjust the base drop rate and % it goes up by accordingly, depending on how rare you want the item to be.

[Zell]

Brilliant Post... im all for your suggestions and completely agree with your concerns about the new system.

[Tibian]

So is this about right so far?


Step 1 - Earn 25,000 seals and buy the key item "On the Properties of Beastment"

Step 2 - Obtain Inferno Seal x3, Tremor Seal x3, Vortex Seal x3 from Rank 2 Hamlet (gold chest requiring 60K+ scores)

Step 3 - Talk to Rowena and Exchange for a Soiled Promissory Note

Step 4 - Go to Gerolt and start Quest "A Relic Reborn"

Step 5 - Gather HQ mats and craft or buy Class-Only Weapons (prefferably HQ)

Step 6 - Double meld the gear with 2 Teir IV Materia of a specific Type as follows:

PLD = Mailbreaker + ? (Most Likely +HP based on AF stats)
MNK = Avengers + Manathirst IV (+MP)
WAR = Rampager + Touch of Rage IV (Emnity)
DRG = Obelisk + Savage Might IV (Crit Attack)
BRD = Sarnga + Heaven's Eye IV (Accuracy)
WHM = Alkaurops + ? (Most likely Mind based on AF stats)
BLM = Astrolobe + Hell's Fist IV (Magic Potency)

Step 7 - Kill chief NM of one specified Stronghold.

PLD =
MNK = Flamefist in Zaha'rak
WAR =
DRG =
BRD =
WHM =
BLM =

Step 8 - Gather 3 Materials from 6th Chest available at end of AV and CC Run
Items: Miser's Mythril (Aurum Vale), Alumina Salts (Cutter's Cry)

Step 9 - ?

This is disgusting. I want to quit the game right now and never return.

How can SE expect to revive the game if stupid systems like this exist?

This is HUGELY de-motivational if true. If 2.0 has future systems akin to this, it will fail.

[Madrox]

yes, I support this.

[Umisame]

I have 2 months left, im tired of this game, i hate luck system and i got burned with AV+CC. 3 weeks since i dont play ffxiv.

When i read news from 2.0 i don't get motivated, i dont want to feel like im wasting my time to get nothing when i play.

Garuda fight is great, 100% drop tokens is the way to go.

[TheVedis]

I have 2 months left, im tired of this game, i hate luck system and i got burned with AV+CC. 3 weeks since i dont play ffxiv.

When i read news from 2.0 i don't get motivated, i dont want to feel like im wasting my time to get nothing when i play.

Garuda fight is great, 100% drop tokens is the way to go.

100% drop tokens still doesnt fix the fact you need to win 10 times to get a weapon.

that still equates to spamming content for drops, when a better solution is available.

[Aistaraina]

100% drop tokens still doesnt fix the fact you need to win 10 times to get a weapon.

that still equates to spamming content for drops, when a better solution is available.

You may be spamming content, but it's guaranteed progression, which is the issue at hand. There is so much RNG, and not enough, "if I put in time, I'll get at least a little bit closer to my goal."