WHY does SE insist on making this game so unforgiving?

[Riv]

This game is incredibly forgiving compared to XI. Although if a tank dies in a fight, due to the way hate works it's nearly impossible for the tank to get hate back in most cases and will result in a wipe. As for how much damage the tank is taking...well that's probably the result of crap gear and skill. There are many abilities available to mitigate damage and even some to heal yourself as a tank, not to mention that many boss moves can be completely avoided by moving around.

But i do agree, the one shot moves from NMs are kind of cheap. But again, if people know what they are doing they should not be getting hit by moves like that.

[Majidah]

This game is incredibly forgiving compared to XI. Although if a tank dies in a fight, due to the way hate works it's nearly impossible for the tank to get hate back in most cases and will result in a wipe.

actually you raise the tank, he pops a maddening potion and the fight keeps going

[Asiaine]

Hello all,

If I understand the OP correctly, there is a legitimate point in there worth thinking about.

The primal (and to some extent boss) battles use a heavily choreographed script. Everything is predictible, and we each have our dance that must be played out right. Unfortunately if we do a step wrong, we can very easily end up loosing.

I think this stems from two major things:
1) The desire for the battles to be 'fast paced'. Unlike in Vana'diel, where each fight would take a long time (and almost always only one target), here everything is designed to be as fast as possible with lots of targets. In such a fast paced battle there is no room for being out of the dance. By the time you get back, the rest of the dance has continued so far ahead you can no longer catch up.

2) The desire for the battles to be heavily choreographed. Unsure why they felt this was a good idea. Once you memorize your little dance routine you can easily be half asleep and still easily complete. Unfortunately, the boss's choreograph carries on despite what we do, and if we die or fall behind, the boss cares not and carries on the dance.

So, there may be an argument that the fights are 'unforgiving' to small mistakes. That being said, the way it is unforgiving is not so bad. A little gear damage is the only penalty. So it is very forgiving in how you are penalized. Far better than the alternative of loosing XP or a level.

Perhaps, at least in my little opinon, the real concern is the great desire to use heavily choreographed battle routines. Challenging to learn, extremly boring once learned, and death if you miss a step.

[Denmo]

Hello all,

If I understand the OP correctly, there is a legitimate point in there worth thinking about.

The primal (and to some extent boss) battles use a heavily choreographed script. Everything is predictible, and we each have our dance that must be played out right. Unfortunately if we do a step wrong, we can very easily end up loosing.

I think this stems from two major things:
1) The desire for the battles to be 'fast paced'. Unlike in Vana'diel, where each fight would take a long time (and almost always only one target), here everything is designed to be as fast as possible with lots of targets. In such a fast paced battle there is no room for being out of the dance. By the time you get back, the rest of the dance has continued so far ahead you can no longer catch up.

2) The desire for the battles to be heavily choreographed. Unsure why they felt this was a good idea. Once you memorize your little dance routine you can easily be half asleep and still easily complete. Unfortunately, the boss's choreograph carries on despite what we do, and if we die or fall behind, the boss cares not and carries on the dance.

So, there may be an argument that the fights are 'unforgiving' to small mistakes. That being said, the way it is unforgiving is not so bad. A little gear damage is the only penalty. So it is very forgiving in how you are penalized. Far better than the alternative of loosing XP or a level.

Perhaps, at least in my little opinon, the real concern is the great desire to use heavily choreographed battle routines. Challenging to learn, extremly boring once learned, and death if you miss a step.

I can agree, though I've not faced a Primal yet.

IMO, I should have all that I needed reward-wise from a fight plus one random bonus item by the time I've finished learning how to defeat it. If I'm casual and just want the weapon for my GLA (I am and do), I should only have to face Garuda 4-5 times before I see the drop land in my bag. By then I'll have gotten the hang of the fight enough to where I feel confident in defeating her.

If I want a complete set of Garuda weapons, I'll just have to repeat it until I get them all. Boring? Yes. But that's the choice a hardcore player makes when going 7/7.

[Elexia]

actually you raise the tank, he pops a maddening potion and the fight keeps going

...You act like people actually prepare for fights in this game. It's like "Why aren't you using a maddening potion?" "Company issued tonic?"

"WUT R THOSE? LOLZ"

[Seirra_Lanzce]

I blame the white mage for not keeping me up when im doing good, and i'll blame my self if im not tanking the way i suppose to tank.

[Cynthis]

Hello all,

If I understand the OP correctly, there is a legitimate point in there worth thinking about.

The primal (and to some extent boss) battles use a heavily choreographed script. Everything is predictible, and we each have our dance that must be played out right. Unfortunately if we do a step wrong, we can very easily end up loosing.

I think this stems from two major things:
1) The desire for the battles to be 'fast paced'. Unlike in Vana'diel, where each fight would take a long time (and almost always only one target), here everything is designed to be as fast as possible with lots of targets. In such a fast paced battle there is no room for being out of the dance. By the time you get back, the rest of the dance has continued so far ahead you can no longer catch up.

2) The desire for the battles to be heavily choreographed. Unsure why they felt this was a good idea. Once you memorize your little dance routine you can easily be half asleep and still easily complete. Unfortunately, the boss's choreograph carries on despite what we do, and if we die or fall behind, the boss cares not and carries on the dance.

So, there may be an argument that the fights are 'unforgiving' to small mistakes. That being said, the way it is unforgiving is not so bad. A little gear damage is the only penalty. So it is very forgiving in how you are penalized. Far better than the alternative of loosing XP or a level.

Perhaps, at least in my little opinon, the real concern is the great desire to use heavily choreographed battle routines. Challenging to learn, extremly boring once learned, and death if you miss a step.

Couldn't agree more. I have yet to beat Ifrit but the few times I have tried the others in the party have given me a similar speech about standing in a particular spot , running from cracks, getting back to the spot...do A then B...follow the script. At this point, I just want to get one win for the hell of it and then never do it again. I beat Moogle on the first try because I was in a good group and followed their instructions.

If that really is the way we are expected to fight primals then it is just like any other grind and then I would prefer to grind some craft for a few hours rather than spend all my time waiting for parties to start. Even though all fights in the game have some of these elements I have enjoyed the open world fights much more since they are more dynamic because the terrain isn't fixed. In terms of just enjoying a fight I would go after the great Buffalo or Elder mosshorn or those HNMs anyday, not to mention the bosses in Natalan, Zaharak and the Ugh mines.

Unfortunately, most people would rather do a choreographed fight that yields a miniscule chance at a weapon than a fight that is more fun.

[Asiaine]

I can agree, though I've not faced a Primal yet.

IMO, I should have all that I needed reward-wise from a fight plus one random bonus item by the time I've finished learning how to defeat it. If I'm casual and just want the weapon for my GLA (I am and do), I should only have to face Garuda 4-5 times before I see the drop land in my bag. By then I'll have gotten the hang of the fight enough to where I feel confident in defeating her.

If I want a complete set of Garuda weapons, I'll just have to repeat it until I get them all. Boring? Yes. But that's the choice a hardcore player makes when going 7/7.

A valid point, and something that has been discussed in other threads about drop rates. Getting one item you really want should be 'easy' or more certain of, whereas getting all 7 should be more time consuming/painful.

I blame the white mage for not keeping me up when im doing good, and i'll blame my self if im not tanking the way i suppose to tank.

I blame no one who is not trying. *Gives Seirra a cookiee*.

Okey, I blame the Lag Monster when I die in fire no where near me....

[Hippo]

OP, I would recommend that you or your friends who keep getting wiped read up the job section of this forum to find out more about your jobs or to watch videos posted by some of our expert players

[EdenArchangel]

Doesn't need to be more forgiving.
Needs better drop rates.
Perhaps 1% -> 2%?