So, when is VPR getting nerfs? (Frontline)

[ChrysOCE]

"- "ignoring animation delay", what did exactly happen and how? And is it always the same person consistently doing it?"
My english is not that good, but I'll try to explain, it felt like they did not really care about their animation delay, its like they were attacking faster than everyone else

Just on this, that really depends on what job they were and what actions. Also, were they under the effect of Dervish? Viper in LB? Bard with Fantasia? Ninja with Huton? All of those lower recast times and they will attack faster than you/others around them. So it would really depend on what jobs and how consistent was it. For ninja, they can go Huton into another ninjitsu, to make Huton available again when their ninjitsu is recharged, so they could easily spam it for each time they are attacking you. Same with Dervish, if it's initial engagement and the fights are not prolonged.

I know there are cheats out there. I dont think its as widespread as people believe. I've only ever seen one person moving around freely, when they were getting monk lb'd and should have been in animation lock.

[Scintilla]

snip

Yes, cheating in PvP happens, and in various forms (third-party programs, win-trading etc.).
The vast majority of cheating within PvP occurs within Ranked CC, largely because its the only PvP duty that offers any kind of reward.

Although it shouldn't happen at all, it's still not remotely as common as some think. Too many players default to baseless accuations purely because another team is beating them. It's a common occurance for my FL alliance chat to be littered with 'cheaters', 'hackers', 'ban premade' comments after being consistently overcome, despite nothing whatsoever to suggest any of those are true - the enemy are just playing better.

The delay in PvP can be dreadful and it's particularly costly for melees on the Frontline, but that's one example of where practice comes in. As a regular player, you learn to work with that delay: you begin to know when to expect focus so that you can pre-emptively counter it, you know how best to approach the enemy to minimise focus when necessary and reduce the pressure (flanking, rather than charging in head-first) etc.
It's not non-human reaction times - it's just that they've put thought into their approach.

Others will just be luck or chance. If I've just thrown myself into the enemy and am being spammed with cc, it's going to be pretty likely that one of those debuffs will hit me the very second my purify ends. Does it mean that player is cheating? No, either by luck or judgement they managed to time their attack so that it applied just as purify ended.
I can time a skill to apply as soon as an enemy player's Guard ends - the buff timer is there for all to see and I have a good idea of how long my skill cast and animation generally takes. Sometimes I time it slightly wrong and pay the price for that (especially if it was an LB I wasted), but other times it works out fine. Doesn’t mean I'm cheating, it just means I've put thought and timing into my attacks.

As for 'healing themselves so they that never drop below 70% HP' being a supposed sign of cheating, what are you talking about?! Since when is a player being mindful of their HP and using Recuperate to ensure it's maintained at a decent level a sign of cheating?

[Valence]

You know what annoys me the most? This systematic derailment of any thread or discussion by bringing up cheating and hacking is something that happens on literally every competitive multiplayer game. All the time, everywhere.

I was actually curious to find who started it a couple of pages ago. What a surprise.

This thread was about VPR in FL, just saying.

There is a legion of threads on cheating already. Just pick your poison really. Some of the most recent ones:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oing-some-work
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Ranked-Reality

[Divinemights]

This is a typical strategy that some English forum posters use when they're losing an argument.
In this case, everything he has said about Viper shows signs of that pattern.
At first, he assumed that everyone would have the same issues with Viper that he did, but that clearly wasn't the case.
Then he tried to present himself as a spokesperson for casual players.
When that didn't work, he shifted the discussion to fairness and macro related topics, even though those issues weren't directly related to the original argument.
Finally, he pulled out the "cheater" accusation as his trump card to shut down the conversation, knowing that most forum posters wouldn't be able to effectively respond to such a serious allegation.
Ironically, he barely contributed anything of substance in those two threads in the first place.

[Hazelx3]

I dont really understand what you want to say or you talk about losing or winning arguments which makes no sense to me because every people are allowed to have their own opinion about something
and me and some other people already have said why Viper is broken
If you cant deal with others people opinion then work on your mindset first, because there is no right or wrong opinion because people see things different
and I wont repeat the arguments for Viper being broken or not, if you want to look them up then scroll some sides back in this thread

[Divinemights]

I dont really understand what you want to say or you talk about losing or winning arguments which makes no sense to me because every people are allowed to have their own opinion about something
and me and some other people already have said why Viper is broken
If you cant deal with others people opinion then work on your mindset first, because there is no right or wrong opinion because people see things different
and I wont repeat the arguments for Viper being broken or not, if you want to look them up then scroll some sides back in this thread

I'm perfectly fine with other people expressing their opinions, as long as they make sense.
What does hacking have to do with this thread?
We're talking about Viper's balance in Frontline.
Not mentioning your back and forth with CC
Yet you've been almost silent in the threads that are actually about cheating and hacking.

[Hazelx3]

"I'm perfectly fine with other people expressing their opinions, as long as they make sense."

And who decides if they make sense or not? Its not you, its the people who read the thread and then they decide

"What does hacking have to do with this thread?
We're talking about Viper's balance in Frontline.
Not mentioning your back and forth with CC
Yet you've been almost silent in the threads that are actually about cheating and hacking."

If you would look up the sites earlier, then I was not the one who started talking about it the first time, I just replied to someone else and then it continued

and to sum it up about VPR of frontlines it was mentioned that the class can just tank so much damage, for such a long time and even use scales twice which gives the team a huge advantage
not to mention people cant properly aim in frontlines if you play on controller
name any other class that can do the same as VPR without a LB, just tanking all the damage, getting its hp filled then repeat while giving your team a huge advantage
yes, you have classes like monk, reaper, dancer, but they need to wait for their LB and viper does not need to wait for his LB, scales has a short cooldown that can even be shortened and he can use scales twice in a row
for example, by playing reaper, I just cant go in into the mass fight and do the same, i cant even fight multiple people at once with rpr, its just not possible
hopefully that makes sense, its one of the reasons why its so broken

[ChrysOCE]

and to sum it up about VPR of frontlines it was mentioned that the class can just tank so much damage, for such a long time and even use scales twice which gives the team a huge advantage
not to mention people cant properly aim in frontlines if you play on controller
name any other class that can do the same as VPR without a LB, just tanking all the damage, getting its hp filled then repeat while giving your team a huge advantage
yes, you have classes like monk, reaper, dancer, but they need to wait for their LB and viper does not need to wait for his LB, scales has a short cooldown that can even be shortened and he can use scales twice in a row
for example, by playing reaper, I just cant go in into the mass fight and do the same, i cant even fight multiple people at once with rpr, its just not possible
hopefully that makes sense, its one of the reasons why its so broken

Does it need its 60% damage reduction? Probably not. But that's whatever. VPR is not broken. No more broken than any other job, when it's played by someone who knows how to get the best out of it.

And, I'm sorry, but RPR can't go into mass fight? You can't fight multiple people at once with RPR? What is this... RPR is far more problematic to go up against, than VPR. LB that puts you in Hysteria and unable to do anything, leaving you defenseless? Egress for quick escape? Shield/Heal ability? An ability that auto-KOs anyone in range below 25% HP? RPR AOE paired with Bloodbath?

I'd rather face off against a VPR than a RPR.

[Hazelx3]

Can you tell me how exactly Reaper is broken without his LB? What can he do against a horde of 30 people or more mass attacking him, while VPR can just go into scales
His quick escape is useless they will stun him and mass attack him until he dies

[ChrysOCE]

It's no more broken than any other job in the hands of someone who knows how to play it