Role actions are lazy, a form of job homogenization, and a cause of hotbar bloat.

[LeCorbeaux]

If you think about it, almost anything that gets "deep" ends up taking more time so they just keep away from that so that people can jump in quickly and be done quickly.

When I think about it (and as a software developer, thinking about systems is basically my day job, so I think about it way too much...), such a "deep" system should allow people for people to stop at any depth they want, trading spending less time with the system for lower optimisation or exclusion from some parts of content. In case of the gearing system, if they don't want to go all-in into optimising the gear they use to the specific use case and instead use a generic "good enough" set for everything, they can do so, costing them little time or effort; at the cost of only utilising 80% or so of their character's potential.

[CaptainLagbeard]

The tank stances having different names made sense back when they had unique effects, before Shadowbringers... Although Grit and Shield Oath were basically the same skill, but WAR had a slightly different Tank Stance...

As for Why all ranged phys have differently named mits and all the healers raises are differently named? Because shut up.

[Valence]

When I think about it (and as a software developer, thinking about systems is basically my day job, so I think about it way too much...), such a "deep" system should allow people for people to stop at any depth they want, trading spending less time with the system for lower optimisation or exclusion from some parts of content. In case of the gearing system, if they don't want to go all-in into optimising the gear they use to the specific use case and instead use a generic "good enough" set for everything, they can do so, costing them little time or effort; at the cost of only utilising 80% or so of their character's potential.

I'm of that mindset as well but it feels to me like CBU3 has decided that they're not since that's basically what we used to have for a lot of the job/role design before SHB. They got rid of it.
Would they be willing to reintroduce some amount of gradual optimization where every skill level would find a sweet spot with, after their recent realization that people are sick of their current difficulty settings? I don't know?

[LeCorbeaux]

The only safe place for any kind of job uniqueness would be solo content because its only place where dynamic variables can be trusted to happen without causing queue and PF crash outs.

PvP works too, as long as all classes, playstyles and gearsets have roughly the same amount of other classes, playstyles and gearsets which counter them, rock-paper-scissors-Spock-lizard style.

But yeah, fight design is way too rigid right now, and suffers from not leaving enough room for creative alternative solutions.

[SalamanderIX]

I'm glad finally said it, and I'd tend to agree, several role actions should be removed, namely.
Addle, Feint, Reprisal, Rampart, Second Wind, Bloodbath, Low Blow, Repose, Sleep, Leg Sweep, Foot Graze, Leg Graze, and Peloton.
If a melee needs stun and healing, maybe some do and some don't. they can be baked into abilities or improve abilities already there (such as Riddle of Earth for Monk).

Mostly I'd like to see the end of addle/reprisal and feint. It's made the Healers and Physical Ranged less special. But if some jobs had tools like that (Say only a Dark Knight had repisal... as it used to), it would make them more unique. Job identity means those things a job brings to a fight that nobody else has.

[IronThistle]

Repose/Sleep has been mentioned as unnecessary, but it has a very useful and very niche use: casters in deep dungeons can save an overpull, especially in Pilgrim's Traverse, using Repose on the extra mob.

I've also used it to interrupt the big turtle's AoE in Origenics.

I for one would vote to keep Repose on any and all casters/healers.

[Astronis]

I'm glad finally said it, and I'd tend to agree, several role actions should be removed, namely.
Addle, Feint, Reprisal, Rampart, Second Wind, Bloodbath, Low Blow, Repose, Sleep, Leg Sweep, Foot Graze, Leg Graze, and Peloton.
If a melee needs stun and healing, maybe some do and some don't. they can be baked into abilities or improve abilities already there (such as Riddle of Earth for Monk0.

This entire list suggests that you're not thinking about why roles have these skills. Some melee don't need healing?! How can you say that?

A lot of these skills are also useful in Deep Dungeons.

The role actions you didn't list suggests you're only considering what players can do in group content. A Viper without Bloodbath or Second Wind is going to be in serious trouble trying to solo a FATE.

[VeyaAkemi]

Bloodbath and Second Wind are my "Don't worry I know what I am doing" buttons in group content, plenty of times in dungeons I will just stand on AoEs for uptime because I know I can patch myself long before it becomes a problem, they aren't replacing anything for unavoidable damage because, well, it's pointless to, the Healers need to patch everyone up and this is always done with AoE healing, they aren't going to magically not target me because I might maybe have hit the red and blue buttons.

[ForsakenRoe]

This entire list suggests that you're not thinking about why roles have these skills. Some melee don't need healing?! How can you say that?

A lot of these skills are also useful in Deep Dungeons.

The role actions you didn't list suggests you're only considering what players can do in group content. A Viper without Bloodbath or Second Wind is going to be in serious trouble trying to solo a FATE.

While I agree that Deep Dungeons help give these abilities more usecases, 'Viper in a FATE' is a terrible example, since you can just have the Chocobo out

Even with completely revised kits for PVP, there's something to be desired.

For all the effort they put into making Crystalline Conflict seem balanced (and opinions will vary), Frontlines is over there being "DRK deathball" for years and years and Rival Wings, despite having a kit that changes mid-combat (the robot abilities), is left to rot forever.

At this point I would take a solo mode of Rival Wings if only so I can do big dumb robot smashing and blasting whenever I want while rocking out to the Alexander raids soundtrack.

On the subject of Rival Wings being dead: SE could just reduce Frontline to 16v16v16 (48 players), and have the Frontline Roulette pull double duty. Either it throws you into Frontline (16v16v16), or it throws you into Rival Wings (24v24). You can only queue as a maximum party size of 4, and a party of 4 slots into both contents' party sizes neatly

I do not understand their obsession with making Frontline 72 players. It makes it harder for the queue to pop too, when everyone's already hit rank 25 and quit playing PVP for the series. Plus, with a lower player count, the combat might be a little more responsive?

[Kohashi]

Why does every major melee mitigation have to be a flat 10% physical and 5% magical? Team composition should require more thought, and jobs should have clear upsides and downsides. If I’m playing Reaper, a hybrid physical/magic job, why can’t my mitigation be more magic focused? If I’m playing VPR, SAM, or DRG; jobs that don’t use magic at all, why am I mitigating magic damage?OTE]

Because there are 3 types of damage in this game, True dmg, physical, and magical. That's it.

Why can't the Esuna cleanse be incorporated into the healer's base kit. Certain abilities like Tetragrammaton, Essential Dignity, Lustrate, Druochole (these are just examples) can have additional effects like a cleanse.

Because Esuna is generally super niche and an underutilized mechanic.

Also, while in theory your idea is not awful, it translates fairly poorly into most content. For example, in TEA you have 6 people who will get a debuff that needs cleansing. It comes down to healer mastery + teamwork between healers to handle that mechanic. Not to mention, a heavy heal check is coming up right after, and you cannot afford to use resources willy-nilly.

In some content, healing is super calculated and timed.