New player experience ( Changes needed asap, Feedback )

[Bubert]

I don’t want this game to turn into Wow. So I kindly disagree with everything OP has said and hope that Yoshi P will never make these changes.

[Kirutsuki]

I don’t want this game to turn into Wow. So I kindly disagree with everything OP has said and hope that Yoshi P will never make these changes.

How does general quality of life changes correlate to WoW?

[Bubert]

How does general quality of life changes correlate to WoW?

In Wow MSQ is basically optional. People can jump on the game and go straight to the latest expansion which is a problem because of this exact reason the old content gets completely ignored. Ffxiv already suffers from this and your “Quality of life” changes would make that even worse for the players that want to experience the game how it’s meant to be.

I play games with my boyfriend and if I’m way behind him? He makes an alt so I can experience the game fully with him. Now, if you bring friends into FFXIV or any other game where content is locked behind Msq and if you were a good friend you’d make an alt so you could play with them. Therefore they won’t feel like they are behind and maybe won’t quit.

This is the story driven MMO and it’s perfect the way it is. Sure it could use some rework in some areas, but definitely not in Msq and content accessibility to new players. In fact I’m glad that ARR filters the tourists out.

[Kirutsuki]

In Wow MSQ is basically optional. People can jump on the game and go straight to the latest expansion which is a problem because of this exact reason the old content gets completely ignored. Ffxiv already suffers from this and your “Quality of life” changes would make that even worse for the players that want to experience the game how it’s meant to be.

I play games with my boyfriend and if I’m way behind him? He makes an alt so I can experience the game fully with him. In fact I’m glad that ARR filters the tourists out.

Those things don't actually make any sense. How does removing clicks or simplify how you track quests make you ignore MSQ? All it would do is make it easier for people to find locations they need to be in.
WOW has never had an interesting story in the first place so people have always skipped most of it, 14 is the opposite.

The thing is I did make an alt and we both are going together through the MSQ, we are the same level with my friend and for the most part the MSQ itself is not a problem for my friend, sure there's some moments that aren't that interesting, but most issues my friend has experienced surrounds UI/UX related things and how to get around in the map and I've tried to not handhold them all the time. I've even gone as far as to tell them that Black Shroud for them isn't as complicated to understand anymore because that's where they started, so learning the rest of the maps, La Noscea and Thanalan will also be a similar learning process. But none of that means that it shouldn't be addressed with some form of QoL. All it means is that people have to "deal with it, like the rest of us".

It feels like you didn't even read the list of issues, because almost none of it relates to MSQ or content accessibility other than "how do you get from point A to point B."
And solo instances being somewhat tougher for healers due to how healers work on those.

I would also imagine that if you're playing with your boyfriend that sometimes you WOULD like to do Duty Support with him no? Instead of be forced to always do full player parties?
Maybe you would like to do the solo instances with your boyfriend, but you can't so every time there's a "destination" for a solo instance you have to leave your party and do it solo, which directly contradicts your point of doing things together fully.

Sure you still get the feeling you're doing it at the same time if youre in a discord call or such, but I can't for example join my friends White Mage solo duty to help out.

But that's not even on the list of problems I posted so....

[Kirutsuki]

While there's certainly an argument to be made for letting certain pieces of side content be unlocked sooner so people can find that one thing they like or have alternate paths to leveling, it shouldn't come at the expense of reducing the rest of the game to little more than background noise, because at that point why even bother to include chaff content like the MSQ if everyone is just going to rush to skip it so they can hurry and get to endgame where everyone else is?

Agreed on you on the other stuff you said. I think it takes a certain type of player who's only interested in raiding or other types of end-game content to kind of skip most of it. And ofcourse it is easier to show off what the game is really like if your friend decides to skip, but the obvious detriment is that they lose out on so much of actual attachment to the game and reasons as to why said content is interesting.

But more to the point I am replying to, I do think the content itself is well paced, we have time to go do gold saucer or hunting logs when we are not enjoying the MSQ bits as much, but now we are at the tail end of hunting logs, so those will not be an option anymore. But luckily the game has provided Palace of the Dead, which is something I might introduce them to as a side content to do and I've gone as far as highlight those important characters from that one dungeon and there was definitely some exitement about what the story with the healer who carries a head around is.

So hopefully that carries some of the burden away from MSQ grind, but if deep dungeons turn out to be a bust and they really dislike it, then the options ofcourse start to thin out and you have to look into things like tribe quests or leveling alt jobs.
But as it is now it feels ok'ish in terms of content we have on the side.

[Valence]

It's enough to make me wonder that when people say they tried to bring a friend into the game that "got bored and quit in ARR" that maybe their friend just isn't suited for playing MMOs, least of all a heavily story-driven one

No, this just means their friend isn't suited for this story and/or that type of "visual novel" in particular.

I've played other MMOs where there wasn't even a main story beyond the background lore. FF14 and SWTOR are the only two I've experienced that do put a huge emphasis on their story and have players go through it like that.

[Kirutsuki]

No, this just means their friend isn't suited for this story and/or that type of "visual novel" in particular.

I've played other MMOs where there wasn't even a main story beyond the background lore. FF14 and SWTOR are the only two I've experienced that do put a huge emphasis on their story and have players go through it like that.

Think it just takes a bit of patience to get through ARR, not everyone has that and if you're new to the game and playing alone, it's hard to find the side content stuff that actually interests you.
Don't think the MSQ needs to change as such, just a bit of weeding out the extra fluff that's still there like "talk to these 3 people who have nothing to say and at worst tell you to piss off".

[Valence]

I personally think you should be able to skip it entirely (without job skips though). And I'm saying this as a story/lore enjoyer. A lot of players play this game for things other than its story—shocker!

[HammAndCheese]

The one thing I'd like changed for new players is the ability to pick up AST, MCH, and DRK before reaching HW. Been playing on an alt recently and that is my number 1 complaint.

The main issue is obviously the job quest locations, so move them for the 30-50 quests (most are in ARR zones to begin with, the pickup locations are just in Ishgard), it's annoying that I can pick up SAM, RDM, DNC, GNB, RPR, SGE, VPR, and PCT without having to reach the expansions they were introduced. Feedback must have been intense for them never to do that crap again.

[Aidorouge]

Agreed on you on the other stuff you said. I think it takes a certain type of player who's only interested in raiding or other types of end-game content to kind of skip most of it. And ofcourse it is easier to show off what the game is really like if your friend decides to skip, but the obvious detriment is that they lose out on so much of actual attachment to the game and reasons as to why said content is interesting.

But more to the point I am replying to, I do think the content itself is well paced, we have time to go do gold saucer or hunting logs when we are not enjoying the MSQ bits as much, but now we are at the tail end of hunting logs, so those will not be an option anymore. But luckily the game has provided Palace of the Dead, which is something I might introduce them to as a side content to do and I've gone as far as highlight those important characters from that one dungeon and there was definitely some exitement about what the story with the healer who carries a head around is.

So hopefully that carries some of the burden away from MSQ grind, but if deep dungeons turn out to be a bust and they really dislike it, then the options ofcourse start to thin out and you have to look into things like tribe quests or leveling alt jobs.
But as it is now it feels ok'ish in terms of content we have on the side.

Aye, I understand wanting to bring friends (or relatives) into the game and wanting to do stuff with them, but some people act like every piece of content from 1 to 99 is "not worth doing, only endgame matters" usually while also talking up the MSQ like its some boring slog and I'm like, no wonder their friends didn't stick around, the veteran player sold the game to them as being 99% garbage. And sure enough they'll probably be calling that level 100 content (and level 101-109) trash once 110 happens.

As well, you rarely hear about people saying they rolled an alt/went back to go through older content with said friend, as presumably they themselves hate the idea of redoing any piece of that older content and just want to hurry up and bring their friend to where they are in the game. I can't imagine it leaves a great impression on the newbie when the veteran is acting jaded, bored, and treating their friend's arrival like it's a matter of personal convenience rather than camaraderie.

Mind you, offering to escort a friend through everything by just unsync soloing it for them can also leave a bad impression, that "nobody likes the content" if they couldn't find enough people to do it synced, or if they feel like they're just being dragged along and not getting to do anything themselves. I had that problem a lot back on Dynamis where I wasn't sure if my unsync "helping" of sprouts was actually helpful at all or if I was contributing to the problem or encouraging any kind of bad habit of minimizing/trivializing content just as much as any bitter veteran.

I'm not really surprised that the game struggles in general to bring in and keep new players these days, but at least half of that fault falls on certain parts of the community its self because "some who walked before hate the idea of leading anyone who walked after" and treat the game as something they just want to get done with already. (Myself included some days.)