You might as well add an official DPS log to the game...

[Jeeqbit]

Square Enix really should SUE

Others would just get made and there isn't really a lot that can be done considering they do not directly gather the information themselves (there is an intermediary).

(I was too removed from a group). The other day I was trying to join a FRU party and they immediately questioned me, because I hadn't hit THEIR prog point.

I wish we could filter parties to people that have been up to a specific time or HP % in PF with no party deaths/vulns/damage downs, using the game itself.

It would prevent me wasting my time as much - joining clear parties and there being a person that keeps dying or getting vulns/damage downs to mechanics earlier in the fight. It wastes so much of my time, and SE designed a lot of other systems to respect your time.

First Savage fight for example. There's always that person who keeps getting damage downs or dying on Steamroller. Then there are people who keep dying to Aetherletting, the easiest, slowest mechanic in the entire fight, that should require no prog whatsoever. Then they can't look and stand in the correct tower despite it being a post-cells party. I wasted 5 days joining enrage/clear parties that had a person nowhere near that prog point and made me lose sleep I needed for my dentist appointment just so I could clear before the weekly reset.

My reclear party was essentially a 1-shot. After a week of "clear-ready" parties. To test that I joined a clear-ready party on my alt and it was the same stuff - people couldn't get anywhere near enrage, because they join them when they are nowhere near ready to clear.

Pfft, like, how hard can going from p2 to p4 really be? I'm a quick learner, just give me a chance. They then proceeded to rudely remove me after going "ermm, no."

Maybe you are and maybe you're not. It doesn't matter. They want to prog p4. If you want to prog p2 to p4 quickly you could make a PF for specifically that.

[Alicie]

SE just needs to shutdown these websites for good. Why? It's affecting core gameplay and pushes people to using 3rd party tools as well as puts console players who can not use 3rd party tools into huge disadvantage.

Or even better - just do not send damage numbers of other players to game client. Why do we even receive that information?

[Hatori_Elric]

I agree with that. those services negatively affect the game in more ways than most realize. Not to mention collecting data from others without permission just to than have it used against those people without them even realizing it as well. I get both sides of the coin on this and feel the cons far outweight the pros for such services be it made official or other wise.

[freshavocado]

Others would just get made and there isn't really a lot that can be done considering they do not directly gather the information themselves (there is an intermediary).
I wish we could filter parties to people that have been up to a specific time or HP % in PF with no party deaths/vulns/damage downs, using the game itself.

It would prevent me wasting my time as much - joining clear parties and there being a person that keeps dying or getting vulns/damage downs to mechanics earlier in the fight. It wastes so much of my time, and SE designed a lot of other systems to respect your time.

First Savage fight for example. There's always that person who keeps getting damage downs or dying on Steamroller. Then there are people who keep dying to Aetherletting, the easiest, slowest mechanic in the entire fight, that should require no prog whatsoever. Then they can't look and stand in the correct tower despite it being a post-cells party. I wasted 5 days joining enrage/clear parties that had a person nowhere near that prog point and made me lose sleep I needed for my dentist appointment just so I could clear before the weekly reset.

My reclear party was essentially a 1-shot. After a week of "clear-ready" parties. To test that I joined a clear-ready party on my alt and it was the same stuff - people couldn't get anywhere near enrage, because they join them when they are nowhere near ready to clear.
Maybe you are and maybe you're not. It doesn't matter. They want to prog p4. If you want to prog p2 to p4 quickly you could make a PF for specifically that.

I understand ur frustrations and ive been there before n i too dont like prog liars but sometimes people have just bad days that they just cant hit their usual progpoint and the community has become so toxic about it that it pushes ppl away from raiding. I feel like we should address that rather than adding more tools to make people more hostile towards each other. Ppl r so obsessed over the time=money aspect of life that it leaks into gaming n thats sad. I guess now i understand why ppl make statics

[VeyaAkemi]

The other day I was trying to join a FRU party and they immediately questioned me, because I hadn't hit THEIR prog point. Pfft, like, how hard can going from p2 to p4 really be? I'm a quick learner, just give me a chance. They then proceeded to rudely remove me after going "ermm, no."

On the topic of the thread, while it is true some people will turn toxic about it, it is also a necessary evil, in a world where people will either willfully lie to hope they get carried, or be overconfident on their ability to progress on the fight, there is value in knowing exactly how far someone's gotten into a given raid, especially if you have limited time to raid and can't afford to stay all day in PF trying party after party.

[LeCorbeaux]

Or even better - just do not send damage numbers of other players to game client. Why do we even receive that information?

That's a combination of the server needing to send the current HP and MP values of all the fighters to the clients, the server sending skill/spell animation data to the clients, and the SQEX devs picking the laziest, easiest to parse by third-party tools (or just a network sniffer) way to do so.

You can somewhat alleviate the parsing of the data by desyncing the status from animation and position updates, but that'll just make the values less precise, never eliminate them. Extreme case example: Take the total damage done, subtract your own, divide the rest by the amount of players minus one and the time spent fighting, and you'll still get an estimate of their DPS.

[Jeeqbit]

I understand ur frustrations and ive been there before n i too dont like prog liars but sometimes people have just bad days that they just cant hit their usual progpoint

I agree and as I mentioned, I endured 5 days (raiding for around 10 hours a day) in hopes that each of those parties was just them "having a bad day" and believing they did actually know the mechanics. But when you join a reclear party and it's a 1-shot it makes you wonder, because that reclear had people who had only been doing the fight for a week as well. The reclearers were supposedly in the same boat as the people I was in enrage parties with, but since they could actually clear and the ones in enrage parties couldn't, it makes you wonder how many of them were just flat out lying.

the community has become so toxic about it that it pushes ppl away from raiding.

I doubt the community has become anymore toxic about it than they ever were. Rather, people have always been afraid of raiding because they fear it might be toxic. Even if they have never actually encountered toxicity or even attempted to raid, they are afraid of even trying to because they are afraid of (potentially) being judged. Often they are afraid of potentially being judged regardless of if they are good at playing or not.

There has always been toxicity in raiding but I can say that, in my experience, it became far less toxic since Shadowbringers released. Back in Heavensward, if you did your rotation slightly wrong you could lose 50% of your damage and the amount of backtalking and trash talking was big. These players who did it wrong were sabotaging Savage and got blacklisted. It was pretty toxic.

In Stormblood, I remember it was the norm for Savage reclears to be 3 wipes or disband, and sometimes just 1. But since Shadowbringers, I noticed people just... stayed in the party and continued wiping for an hour, and this has been the norm in my experience ever since. The patience people had after jobs were simplified, consequences were nerfed, and we got that influx of WoW players, the community really seemed to shift.

I did hear of some toxicity returning due to M6S though, so any toxicity returning is likely due to Dawntrail attempting to bring back Heavensward style ideas like different arenas, add rooms, adds, etc. which actually required people to know what buttons they are pressing and how to position enemies.

[PercibelTheren]

FFLogs and Tomestone/passport is a symptom of a bigger problem, players that constantly lying about their prog points and seemingly incapable of pressing their abilities. Almost like if you don't lie and know your job, then you have nothing to worry about.

Prog lying is the most overblown thing I have seen in this game in a long while. Yeah, some people do it but in most cases, what happens is that there are very different ideas of what it means to have done a phase of the fight.

Either way, pushback against logging won't get any sympathy in this community. The forums are full of high end parseheads who think everyone has to play the game exactly like them.

[Rithy255]

I've always found the idea that theirs no damage log in the game absurd.

This game Damage matters so much that certain jobs have been locked out of PF groups for performing slightly worse, Damage is so important to their design that it controls ff14's entire Meta. Yet people can't see and Improve upon their damage because what? someone may get offended if you say "you need to do more dps" like that's just a fact certain fights cannot be cleared without you being competent at doing DPS, how are people meant to even see a problem with someone not outputing enough damage in a fight without a log, you'd be walled because of that player if they are just not doing damage with the only thing to tell is Aggro list which is very unreliable information for starters you can't really judge a tanks damage or healers damage even through that, but you can't even see if a lower damage output ranged job isn't doing that great mostly you can see if a samurai or viper is somehow getting out performed.

DPS meter should have been a feature since day one, People should also be able to call you out for griefing a entire party by underperforming a massive amount, at the very least people should be able to kick you if they cannot literally clear with the lack of damage you output.

Now for normal content? not really needed Tbh, would be nice to see self damage as you can work on your rotation and improving but anything EXT+ should have a damage meter anything else to that is contradictory to how the game is designed, remove DPS checks if you don't want damage to be important otherwise people will actually need to see the damage they do.

[theunhappypotato]

Square Enix really should SUE FFlogs and tomestone, and shut them down, because that is infuriating (I was too removed from a group). The other day I was trying to join a FRU party and they immediately questioned me, because I hadn't hit THEIR prog point. Pfft, like, how hard can going from p2 to p4 really be? I'm a quick learner, just give me a chance. They then proceeded to rudely remove me after going "ermm, no."

quality bait i love it