Classes too similar and some have useless extra buttons. Needs big rework.

[Zered]

I was looking at Sage and Scholar abilities to decide which one I wanted to play. I noticed they had mostly the same exact skills. Feels like class choice is more about aesthetic than actual gameplay style.
The same issue exists with other classes in the same role. It makes them feel bland.

Another problem is that some classes have a lot of pointless buttons. Dragoon has 7 skills for its 2 single target combos that mostly do the same thing. All of them are a single target hit. They can be compressed into 2 buttons. One button to apply the debuff+bleed and the other one changes to the next action each time you click it, the same way it works in pvp. These are fake choices and fake skills. Each skill should bring a unique purpose to the table. When I play Astrologian, every single button is useful and has a unique purpose and I choose which to use based on the situation. Red mage's air/stone and thunder/fire spells are also duplicates of each other and the black/white mana bar is just flavor.

All the classes need to have a big rework done on them. Make them unique and very different from each other and streamline their abilities instead of having lots of useless buttons that do the same thing.


Here are some examples of what each class can be:
Melee DPS:
Dragoon could have many mobility abilities with low cooldown that also build momentum for big burst and help engage/evade and minimize down time and make greedy plays. It can have longer melee reach because lance is long.
Reaper can be a durable and self-sustaining dps with shields and some life-steal.
Ninja can be versatile and adaptable with various effects based on seal combinations, like gaining damage mitigation, damage buff, debuffing the enemy, or teleporting, or boosting, saving teammate from death with clone replacement, etc.
Monk can be the one that rewards you for doing combos and positionals and gives team buffs
Samurai can be a glass cannon with little utility and evasion but extra damage output.

Healers:
Astro a proactive burst healer with buffs and lots of regen like it is now.
White mage can be basic, straight forward reactive healing. Big flat heals and minor regen. Can build up for an extra large heal by charging meter with dps. Just basic straight forward gameplay.
Sage can be a reactive shielder like the shield equivalent of white mage. Shield when needed, and build up big shields and passive healing by doing damage.
Scholar can be the proactive planner type shielder with less of a focus on dealing damage and more focus on preparing triggers and mitigation.

Tanks:
Dark knight: Barrier based tank. Can shield self or allies. Has minor lifesteal. Mechanics to help upkeep barrier, split agro with shadow to buy time for small heals and stay healthy.
Warrior: Selfish straight forward lifesteal tanking. Do damage, get healed, cling to life.
Paladin: Damage mitigation to self and team with occasional shield blocking and health regen.
Gunbreaker: Attack enemies to charge aether magic shells. Mix different combinations of shells to produce different effects like small shields, small heals, mitigation, enemy debuff, etc. Versatile all-rounder.

[MsMisato]

it became that way because players were saying it was too complicated for jobs like scholars, astros, and other jobs. so they started the homogenization of classes. alot of those job you have down for examples is what they use to do so to speak.

[hydralus]

Yeah, even a very simple job like PCT has redundant buttons.

[NegativeS]

> wow has the equivalent of 40 classes and even the worst among them is more engaging than the best ffxiv job

how does blizzard keep getting away with it

[Supersnow845]

I will never agree with the idea of SCH ceding the damage healer archetype to an underbaked as hell mechanic like kardia when SCH had been the damage healer for 4 expansions longer than SGE has even been in the game

[Rongway]

Yeah, even a very simple job like PCT has redundant buttons.

PCT's big sin is having two sets of buttons that do the exact same thing but under mutually exclusive conditions. Instead of one set that only works under buffs and another set that only works without buffs, there should just be one set that upgrades automatically during buffs.

[Arrius]

> wow has the equivalent of 40 classes and even the worst among them is more engaging than the best ffxiv job

how does blizzard keep getting away with it

I am not sure, but even Devastation Evokers have just a single hotbar they use at best - They literally just need to keep a beam channeling going.

[Zered]

it became that way because players were saying it was too complicated for jobs like scholars, astros, and other jobs. so they started the homogenization of classes. alot of those job you have down for examples is what they use to do so to speak.

what's the logic? Does every class have to appeal to everyone? If those players prefer simple classes, was there none of those for them to play?

I will never agree with the idea of SCH ceding the damage healer archetype to an underbaked as hell mechanic like kardia when SCH had been the damage healer for 4 expansions longer than SGE has even been in the game

That's fine. SCH can dps to heal and Sage can be whatever else. Just need some difference between them.

> wow has the equivalent of 40 classes and even the worst among them is more engaging than the best ffxiv job

how does blizzard keep getting away with it

I played WoW and every single button was useful and had a distinct purpose. I had a spec with maybe 20-30 different buttons and all had their place. I had another spec with maybe 15 buttons and a bunch of passives which was fine. There was no bloat and fake options. Everything about the current classes and their abilities feel like fake choice.
I contemplate playing it again because it has such a nice combat system and movement and freedom and complexity with high skill ceiling, but the company sucks and the game design does not respect your time at all, and the mythic key down-grade system is toxic and time wasting af. You just can't play how you want to play. Gotta keep it up like a part-time job or you fall behind and can't do anything anymore because everyone wants top scores to minimize suffering the toxic systems that for some reason Blizzard refuses to fix. People already pay monthly sub but they still have to farm gold like a part time job to afford raid buffs and legendary gear crafting and all that. Do it all again for each alt you have too.

[Selsix]

what's the logic? Does every class have to appeal to everyone? If those players prefer simple classes, was there none of those for them to play?

The logic was to take difficulty and identity away from jobs to make them easier and increase the difficulty of high end content to compensate. The idea was this would be a middle-ground that would make everyone happy. The players saying the jobs were too hard would now have an easier time and the harder fights would keep the savage raiders happy despite the easier jobs.

This however was a massive mistake and only now are we really seeing the consequences. The end result is we have very difficult hardcore content most of the players aren't prepared for due to lack of midcore content to act as a bridge and all of the jobs are brainless boring reskins. They listened to a loud minority and it is now destroying the game. They should have told them "git gud" but instead tried to make everyone happy with a short-sighted change in design direction which obviously bit them in the ass. Here's hoping they can still fix it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Aidorouge]

It's either simple jobs/complex fights or complex jobs/simple fights. Pick your poison.