A MSQ where we lose to the bad guys

[FuturePastNow]

There's a reason The Empire Strikes Back is universally regarded as the best Star Wars movie. And it's not because the audience is rooting for the Empire.

[DiaDeem]

Huh?? Ilberd won.

His plan:
- Recruit a bunch of desperate displaced Ala Mhigans for his little stunt at Baelsar's Wall.
- Kill them all (and himself) to summon Shinryu.
- The actions above would force the Eorzean Alliance and its hero (us) into open conflict with Garmalade for the liberation of Ala Mhigo, something they had avoided doing for two decades.

His plan happened exactly as he intended.

We don't need the bad guys to win. What we need is real stakes, and actually experiencing true loss along the way. Empire Strikes Back is not good because the bad guys win, but because the heroes can rise above the darkest times. We had that with Haurchefaunt in Heavensward, but this story team has a very hard time having the WoL/player ever experience true personal loss. The playerbase loves Haurchefaunt for a reason.

[Ellona_Andrivari]

So i have been thinking. Would it be cool if we had an reach the end of an MSQ were the bad guys won, while we were left in the dust? I mean not like in Final Fantasy 6 where Kefka nearly destroyed world.

But more like they got away and we're unable to get them as we're busy dealing with final boss of the expansions that is an threatening and we had to chose between going after the big bad or face this boss that is going to end millions of lives? You know kinda give us a bitter sweet moment.

We did that it was called Stormblood nobody liked it.

[ZephyrMenodora]

We have had story beats where we are not immediately victorious. But unless we eventually overcome such an obstacle it's not a very fulfilling story beat for many players.

[TheMightyMollusk]

We've lost a few times in the story. Leaving aside scripted fight losses to Zenos and we have Zenos at home Ran'jit, there are plenty of examples where the Bad Guys get the lead and put us on the back foot. Hell, it goes back to Legacy, where Dalamud fell and released Bahamut, requiring an almost literal deus ex machina to save the world, while still leaving it scarred and forever changed.

Problem is, the story continues. As long as we keep on following the same WoL and the same main supporting cast, the stakes don't matter much, because we'll bounce back sooner or later and get right back to the status quo.

[RedLolly]

I wouldn't mind it. I really enjoyed the mini-arc in 7.2 and 7.3, but the entire reason Calyx lost was because he just couldn't wrap his head around just how unstoppable we are. Probably a direct response by the devs to the complaints in DT that we were sidelined in situations that we'd have been able to handle. They gave the WoL lots of big damn hero moments because DT failed to make us feel like a hero.

Furthermore, the times the game switched to cosmic level threats over grounded political ones have always been received better by the player-base as a whole. If we get something that makes us lose without being a world threat, it would need to be pretty cleverly put together or be an actual issue for a close ally. The devs are allergic to primary character death but if something came along that suddenly killed, crippled, or damseled a Scion, bam, there's stakes.

But oh, wait, Zenos did that, too. Hm.

[Veritas-Ancora]

Sure.

I mean if I have to deal with crippling depression...

...why can't the WoL?

[Kozh]

Whilst I feel this could be interesting if done right, I'm not sure how well some players would react to it.

I'm immediately reminded of how some players were so bitter that the Warrior of Light's initial fight against Zenos in "In Crimson It Began" ended with the WoL getting their arse kicked. Yes, I know it was a forced defeat etc etc - I've read arguments around that more times than I can count; but therein lays my point. That scripted defeat was part of the MSQ as a whole - and there were players who couldn't tolerate that.

So, as said, if they write the Warrior of Light either being outright defeated or fighting in a 'Charge of the Light Brigade' scenario, they'd really have to get it right.

I despise this community sometimes, they can't stand it when their WoL isn't in the spotlight and a godlike hero who always win. People complained when we lost to zenos, complained that lyse stole our spotlight, complained when the story make us run away from ranjit, and don't get me started with In From the Cold.

[Lukha]

Back in Shadowbringers I was personally kinda rooting for us to fail and actually let the rejoining with the First happen.

Not because I hated the First or the people there, or because it wouldn't be heartbreaking for everyone we got to know there to just suddenly cease to exist, but because it would be utterly devastating for that to happen after hours of gameplay spent trying to save it.

Alas, I was screamed down and called all sorts of names for even suggesting it, so I suspect a fair portion of the playerbase...or at least a LOUD portion...would vehemently dislike it if the WoL is ever actually allowed to fail in any meaningful way.

[Rithy255]

Anything new to the formular would be great.

One of my biggest complaints is that we drag the scions around still, despite the fact you know they're going to be fine, Shadowbringers was nice because they took them in a interesting direction, but I feel as if anything you can do with them in the modern era they will just remain invincible and not really have much plot relevance

I just want this game to take risks again, both with the gameplay and the story, until then it will be predictable and boring