League levels of toxic behavour in game.

[PharisHanasaki]

Personally, I think we should just remove job specifications entirely and throw everything under a 'DPS' tag, and nerf enemy damage to the point there's no real way to wipe beyond standing there and doing nothing for upwards of two hours.

You know what? I agree with you: It's past time we got a thumbs down button

[BokoToloko]

Yall need to stop running off to pull more mobs man holy hell just attack the mobs the tank is attacking and heal the tank and gg

The DPS's lost HP and, if they apply Slow on attackers, their Arm's Lenghts are mitigations for the tank and the tank can easily take the agro back with 2 AoEs. And if the tank is new, good for him, because they'll get to actually learn how to manage CDs contrary to the 1 pack per pull where their HP hardly drop. And if people die, it's a very short walk back with reset CDs and time to try again.

The argument that "pulling ahead of the tank is rude" is completely arbitrary. There isn't a set rule of conducts that explicitly says "You MUST not pull ahead of the tank" and the role of the tank is drawing the aggro away from the rest of the party, not pulling..

[OlafQuintessa]

The argument that "pulling ahead of the tank is rude" is completely arbitrary.

It's not arbitrary, it means the run goes more smoothly.

[BokoToloko]

It's not arbitrary, it means the run goes more smoothly.

The run goes just as smooth when the DPS pull and bring the mobs to the tanks. Unless the tank starts throwing a hissy fit over someone pulling ahead and turns agro off or refuses to AoE. Then it's just on the tank, rather than the DPS. Which makes the "rude" part about it arbitrary as the impact is null. Slightly beneficial to the tank, even, due to the reasons listed above.

[OlafQuintessa]

The run goes just as smooth when the DPS pull and bring the mobs to the tanks. Unless the tank starts throwing a hissy fit over someone pulling ahead and turns agro off or refuses to AoE. Then it's just on the tank, rather than the DPS. Which makes the "rude" part about it arbitrary as the impact is null. Slightly beneficial to the tank, even, due to the reasons listed above.

No, not at all, it means the dps has just got in the way of the tank doing their job and the rest of the party now has to jump in to prevent the dps from getting themselves killed (whether that's easy or not, it's making more work for everyone else). The healer and tank together are the only ones who decide how much and when to pull. The dps running ahead to pull is like road rage - rude and selfish.

[BokoToloko]

No, not at all, it means the dps has just got in the way of the tank doing their job and the rest of the party now has to jump in to prevent the dps from getting themselves killed (whether that's easy or not, it's making more work for everyone else). The healer and tank together are the only ones who decide how much and when to pull. The dps running ahead to pull is like road rage - rude and selfish.

Yes, completely.

Starting with the fact that a DPS bringing the npcs means the tank could be stuck with the first pack doing AoE and would eventually pick up the mobs without additional input anyways, followed by the fact healers have enough AoE oGCDs to heal the DPS colaterally without sacrificing healing for the tank or DPS on the pack, the healers and tanks need in fact, not put more work to keep the DPS from dying, unless the DPS runs away from the mobs which, all in all, rarely happens (if at all).

Then the amount of dungeons who deviate from the standard 2 packs>Wall>2 packs can be caounted with the hands, meaning once you know how it goes on the lower levels (and it gets easier to pull wall to wall as you level on, thanks to the increased amount of mitigation and healing tools), it's the same almost everywhere else and the pace of all players should already be on the same page.

Believing the healer and tank have complete priority in deciding the pace of the dungeon is completely out of touch with how dungeons work in FFXIV. Because, again, the tank job is to draw aggro from mobs and the healer's job is to keep their party alive. That's it. There are no leadership grants along with it and DPS aren't little drones contractually forced to coddle either because their job is to DPS NPCs until they NPCs are dead, not following the tank and healer obediently. And that's not to mention what I've already said before: the DPS can mitigate damage for the tank if they pull ahead, thanks to Arms Lenght (and even more tools depending on the DPS in question).

If you really believe you're the main character because your role icon is green or blue, you'll be in for a rude awakening.

[BinaryIdiot]

However in dungeons recently the7re has been so many cases of DPS players using every mobility skill they have to rush ahead of me in the dungeon, pulling packs, demanding I then save them. (Despite the fact I'm doing everything in my power to go as fast as possible) If they die I get a ton of abuse. If I ask them even politely to slow down just a bit to allow me to pull so I'm not having to chase after them and then split up to get the ones who then agrro on the healer who is trying to save their ass.

Sorry but I for me personally I believe the tank should be the one to pull the packs and bosses. Every dungeon I do I go as fast as possible doing wall to wall pulls ect. The only times I slow down is if the healer is struggling or for example just before the final boss to allow a first timer to watch the cutscene and not have the group already whaling on the boss.

I understand that most people have done dungeons hundreds of times. I have too, but come on. Do people not realise by pulling as a DPS they run the risk of slowing down the dungeon? Especially if they die or I as the tank have to chase around the mobs who split off to attack everyone else but me.

This must be a joke. If you're using sprint a DPS shouldn't beat you 95% of the time. In the case they do beat you, it should be by 1-2 seconds AT MOST and you only need to press ONE BUTTON to grab emnity.

I wish I could auto blacklist YPYT jokers like you because this is a very basic skill issue. If this is happening in a level 30 dungeon? Okay, shit happens. But a level 50+ dungeon? You should know how to press sprint and press your AoE button. This post is embarressing.

[BinaryIdiot]

No, not at all, it means the dps has just got in the way of the tank doing their job and the rest of the party now has to jump in to prevent the dps from getting themselves killed (whether that's easy or not, it's making more work for everyone else). The healer and tank together are the only ones who decide how much and when to pull. The dps running ahead to pull is like road rage - rude and selfish.

This isn't a thing. The party should be together. Doesn't matter who pulls. A DPS _can't_ run ahead, dungeons are extremely streamlined. Please play with trusts if you're not going to play well with others

[klu]

Please play with trusts if you're not going to play well with others

Concur. If youre going to run off pulling when the tank and healer didnt explicitly give you the go ahead, please play with trusts.

[klu]

A beautiful PLD earlier in this thread commented that tanks would probably be more gracious with DPS pulling if they weren't watching their health bars drop because "omg lasers and rocks crikey!" and so far all I've seen in response to this is "lawl that's part of the game, its fun".

And we are still circling this topic as if the answer wasnt staring us in the face.

I know forums are more complicated chat exercises than the majority of you want to engage in with other players, but in the game? We aren't moving past this.

If im being expected to adhere to my traditional role, ie pull the aggro off you, then im going to expect you to adhere to your role too.

Ie, you heal, you don't dps.
Ie you let me pull so the aggro was on me from the get-go.

As SOON as we want to start discussing what parts of these roles are up for debate, then my tank stance goes off.

Im doing what YOU WANT to do. Either we ALL do our roles, or NONE of us do them.