Premades Don’t Break Frontline — They Broke the Illusion of the Horde Stampede

[Valence]

I've watched more JP games and all I can say is that I don't see much difference with the average EU experience. I guess I'll need to go back playing some games on NA to compare, how can this region become so bad according to what's being said here I wonder?

[Mistress_Irika]

I've watched more JP games and all I can say is that I don't see much difference with the average EU experience. I guess I'll need to go back playing some games on NA to compare, how can this region become so bad according to what's being said here I wonder?

I'm kinda glad that shatter was remade. If we were still playing on that old map I wouldn't mind inviting you to Primal just to show you how easily a premade of 2 can control an entire alliance on their own without any help from the other 22. I can't exactly say what's happening now since I wander around the Black Shroud these days. I can confidently assume that the flow hasn't changed at all despite personally going through one calamity.

I do wonder what the EU games are like. I have yet to see a frontlines games from that region, and I'm only getting more curious the more I read.

[Mawlzy]

I've watched more JP games and all I can say is that I don't see much difference with the average EU experience. I guess I'll need to go back playing some games on NA to compare, how can this region become so bad according to what's being said here I wonder?

Just realized the JP games I watched were not representative since they were Q-synchs.

[Divinemights]

I've watched more JP games and all I can say is that I don't see much difference with the average EU experience. I guess I'll need to go back playing some games on NA to compare, how can this region become so bad according to what's being said here I wonder?

Could you please select and share a video that supports your point?
It’s perfectly fine if the video aligns with your narrative.
I’m genuinely interested in seeing an example.

My concern is that there’s a noticeable difference between English-speaking players on the Japanese Data Center and authentic Japanese players themselves.
Most genuine Japanese Frontline videos either have Japanese audio or are muted entirely, since they're intended for a Japanese audience.
These are also usually uploaded to Nico Nico, not YouTube.

I’ve seen a few videos claiming to be from the Japanese servers, but I have my doubts.
Depending on the time of day, the JP Data Center can be heavily populated by OCE and SEA players.
For instance, Japanese prime time usually falls during early morning hours in NA.

The main point here is to highlight the distinct differences in playstyle between Western and Eastern approaches to Frontline.
Korean and Chinese players tend to follow similar styles to Japanese players.
Unfortunately, I can't read Korean, and many Chinese PvP videos are hosted on BiliBili, which raises some concerns regarding internet security and access.

That’s why I’m genuinely looking forward to the example video you choose.
A lot of counterarguments make similar claims, but rarely provide actual footage to back them up.
As I mentioned, feel free to pick a video that supports your view
I can usually tell whether it’s authentic by cross-referencing with uploads on Nico Nico.

[Divinemights]

I'm kinda glad that shatter was remade. If we were still playing on that old map I wouldn't mind inviting you to Primal just to show you how easily a premade of 2 can control an entire alliance on their own without any help from the other 22. I can't exactly say what's happening now since I wander around the Black Shroud these days. I can confidently assume that the flow hasn't changed at all despite personally going through one calamity.

I do wonder what the EU games are like. I have yet to see a frontlines games from that region, and I'm only getting more curious the more I read.

If you're referring to the two players I think you are, they're not part of a premade.
It’s just a hardcore PvP player teaming up with a friend who’s more of a casual, likely just grinding for the 450 weekly points.
There’s no Discord, no coordination via linkshell — just basic awareness, solid map knowledge, and exploiting the weaknesses of the typical Horde Stampede mindset through smart target selection and positioning.

[ChrysOCE]

That’s why I’m genuinely looking forward to the example video you choose.
A lot of counterarguments make similar claims, but rarely provide actual footage to back them up.
As I mentioned, feel free to pick a video that supports your view
I can usually tell whether it’s authentic by cross-referencing with uploads on Nico Nico.

I mean, you can choose to believe or not, I don't see what video evidence has to do with it. Are there good matches? Of course there are. Just like there are good matches in OCE and NA. But there are also bad matches in all regions. JP isn't some panacea of pvp play and they all just know how to play the game better than other regions.

For myself, as said, I have played over 500 matches in JP. I've played about 1500 in NA and 2200 in OCE. I know bad play when I see it.

Anyway, I am firmly in the camp that premades are not a major insurmountable problem in Frontlines.

[Valence]

Could you please select and share a video that supports your point?

I mean at this point the one you linked was already a perfect example to me but you didn't seem to care about what I had to say about this one already so... If on top of it we have to say that it doesn't work because "it's not JP it's OCE" or "it's not JP it's chinese/korea"... I'm tired of this, I think I'll just bow out of this.

[Mistress_Irika]

If you're referring to the two players I think you are, they're not part of a premade.
It’s just a hardcore PvP player teaming up with a friend who’s more of a casual, likely just grinding for the 450 weekly points.
There’s no Discord, no coordination via linkshell — just basic awareness, solid map knowledge, and exploiting the weaknesses of the typical Horde Stampede mindset through smart target selection and positioning.

Heh. I never said that they were part of a premade. I just wanted to put out there how they didn't need to rely on anyone else. That's all

...Lolwut? Premades enforce "horde mentality" more than anything, you obey the DRK in the 4/8-stack making the calls or else.

Personal skill expression/impact feels like the actual illusion because premades either spoon-feed you a win or steamroll you into a loss, there's no real sense of contribution or countering to be made.

Horde mentality is the meta, premades or not. With the exception of secure, there's only objective to go for. There's hardly any reason to split from the pack.
That doesn't mean you have to follow the rules. You can easily choose to break them and play your way.
Contribution? Probably true...probably. Countering? You can probably punish the whole horde strategy that everyone relies on with a very small group in secure. Can't same the same in the other maps.

[Aravell]

But I'm under no delusion that I'm some one-man badass that can single-handily turn the tide of every fight I'm in and has never known defeat

I think there's a misunderstanding here, there's no such thing as a "one-man badass".

Rather, a solo player can contribute in small but effective ways, such as:

-Fending the opponent off a capture point to delay them until your team arrives.
-Diverting part of the enemy horde towards killing you so your horde overwhelms theirs at the objective.
-Making your presence as a counter job known to the enemy DRK so they move in a less advantageous way.

Stuff like that. Small but helpful things to do, you don't need to join the deathball to contribute.

[Divinemights]

I usually do just play to my own music in Frontlines, its why I main MCH (we aren't reliable for deathballs due to tool rotation/short range on some of our AoEs) and systematically mute commanders.

"You can't wake someone who is pretending to be asleep."
That’s the impression I’m getting from above and those now-deleted older posts.

You're not engaging in honest discussion
You’re just recycling the same tired narrative I already addressed in the original post: blaming Premades as the root of all Frontline problems.
But all you've really shown is how determined you are to stay in your comfort zone, refusing to accept that the issues are far more complex than just "Premade bad."
You consistently refuse to coordinate with your team, cling to jobs that are often the go-to choice for beginners because they feel safe, and lock yourself into tunnel vision

But I'm under no delusion that I'm some one-man badass that can single-handily turn the tide of every fight I'm in and has never known defeat

I'm not sure where you're getting that idea.
The two players he's referring to were only effective in the past, specifically in Old Shatter due to its unique map structure.
The main point here is that there are still other viable ways to play besides blindly following the 'Horde Stampede' meta.
Premades are one of those options