yoshi what are you doing to steel cyclone ):?

[Hulan]

It's not so much that they can do damage so well, it's that they can do damage so well at the same time as tanking. Just because they do slightly less damage than a drg, is FAR offset since at the same time they're outclassing PLDs.

...Which is what is interesting about these changes. I, for one, am all for the proposed changes to both WAR and PLD. That being said, it does seem that they are not really addressing the big issue here; that being that WAR can DD well and Tank better than any class, when the proposed job was a DD with the ability to tank if needed. I do not play WAR, so I only have the raw stats to go by, but it seems like these changes will do the most damage to WAR's ability to DD, not to it's ability to tank. Hopefully this is well thought out and will achieve the intended results, only time will tell.

[Leoheart]

Just take away WARs ability to use GLD abilities.


Problem solved.

[Gennosuke]

i don't disagree- i'm simply touching on the sweeping generalizations people are making by pointing out the specific capabilities of the jobs.

By tackling those generalizations though, you come off as defending War's case or at the very least ignoring the bigger picture/issue here, when really, everyone should voice out against the imbalance amongst jobs, because it is causing much discontent with the game for most ppl. It is a big issue and has been since the start of the game.

It is not an easy thing for devs to perfect balance amongst all jobs, however in the case of War, the discrepancy is big, because as someone stated above, it is excelling in both areas, offense and defense. For the most part, Pld's are not shining as tanks as they should, neither are other DD jobs in many situations because of the lack of crowd control for eg.

Even though it is a step in the right direction, nerfing OP jobs that is, personally though, my bigger concern/interest is rather boosting other jobs to excel in other (needed) areas. That would add to the solution, would raise the demand for other jobs and bring more variety to the table, making the battle system more strategic and interesting.

[Delsus]

i don't disagree- i'm simply touching on the sweeping generalizations people are making by pointing out the specific capabilities of the jobs.

And welcome to the world that has been created by pushing jobs to the sidelines, people do not know how to play them, if people suggest going DRG, they will get a reply "I only have exp on WAR, I have never played DRG" I have seen that sort of comment before now, so while its the sort of thing I personally hate (lets not get into that) it exists.

Also if you have a job pushed completly out the picture people will not gear it as well, why spend something like 30mil+ to get double and triple melds on a job you never use, so people still get stuck on the job they always play.

While I know it has to be false I have been told before now that "right now DRG and MNK are completly useless" that was before a Garuda fight by someone I believe has killed her (yes I have been stuck on BLM on it) another problem with pushing jobs to the sidelines, no one knows what they can even do.

And back on topic I have a suggestion xxx's Steel Cyclone deals 1 damage to mobs super nerf

[Alise]

Nah, I think the point why a lot of people demand for other classes buff is because :

-WHM = significant role as best healer. (no other job can heal as good)
-BLM = significant role as best spell nuker. (no other job come near in spell damage)
-BRD = significant role as range-attack and support. (since no any other job can do physical-range.
-WAR = significant tank that have GOOD AoE. (here, you can see its role different from other melee choice)

Problem is :
-PLD = a tank? but why such a low defend? not much higher than WAR. enmity also just so so. and the healing self skill cost mp too much that it is not reliable in long boss fight.
-MNK, DRG = very vague on its role. not significant in any other way at all. They are top single Dps!! but very similar to each other. MNK evasion doesn't work as often on boss, so it doesn't bring enough different to DRG. (So far, I never seen any content that favor on evasion-tank yet!!) DRG also have little AoE, little support WS add into it, but nothing make it clear.

To fix :
I think SE need to make clear that they want MNK to be evasion tank? or they want MNK to be DpS? just let it boost one to the best. If SE want it to be evasion type. make it dodge as much as thief/ninja in evasion build FF11. If SE want it to be Dps then make sure that MNK will have single Dps out number every job by vast amount.

DRG need to boost more attack power to make people confirm with the outstanding number. Make it clear if SE want it to be DPS type (in case if they make MNK as evasion-tank role) or they want to make this as Spike DD type?

PLD need to have much higher defend that WAR can't compare with at all.

[Airget]

Unless I made a mistake this is how the current combo system looks for each Job

1k-Heavy-Lead-Wide 10/30/80 Wide=AOE
1k-Heavy-Quick-Rain 10/180/30 Quick=AOE cone Rain=AOE
1k-Pierce-Shadow 20/40
1k-Pierce-Gloom-Blood 20/10/80
----------
THM=Fire/Thunder
WHM=Aero/Earth
---------------------------------
1kF-Fast-Savage-Goring 10/30/80
1kF-Fast-Flat 10/10 (Enmity gain combo)
1kB-Riot-Rage 80/20
.2Sh-Phalanx-Spirit 5/120
Flash/War Drum=AOE
---------------------------------
1kF-True-Heavy- 10/20
1kF-True-Leg-Doom 10/30/60 Leg=AOE cone?
1.5kBVorp-Impulse-Chaos 20/30/80
1.5kBVorp-Impulse-Ring 20/30/60 Ring=AOE
.5M-Feint-Disembowel 10/30
----------------------------------
1kF-Heavy-Skull-Steel 10/30/30 Steel=AOE
1.5kS-Brutal-Maim-Gods 20/30/60
1.5kB-Path-Whirl 30/80 Whirl=Slow animation AOE
--------------------------------
1kF-Pummel-Concussive-Simian 10/30/80
1kF-Pummel-Aura 10/40 Aura=AOE
1.5kB-Pounce-Sucker-Dragon 20/15/60
1.5kB-Pounce-Demolish-Howling 20/30/80

ARC/BRD has the advantage of doing any combo as long as it's 8 yalms away from the target.

GLD/PLD has a 10/10 second combo which can grant them an enmity boost every 20-30 seconds, WAR's is a 10/30 recast.

ARC/DRG both have 2 AOE combos along with WAR, the recast go 10/30/80-10/180/30 for Archer and 10/30/60-20/30/60 so in that respect Warrior does have an advantage with it's 10/30/30 AOE combo but it's somewhat balance by the 30/80 combo that can only be done from behind, but also has the disadvantage of being an extremely slow animation.

I know there are other fine details to go along with this like some skills have to be performed on certain sides in order to gain their effect but overall when changes are being made SE should take into account that when it comes to combos Warrior only has one reliable one when tanking, even other classes have 2 Front combos they can rely on yet WAR has one. When it comes to the powerful combo of 10/30/30 if the 2nd move misses then you either have to wait those 30 seconds or use 2k TP if you want to use SC, since Brutal is a single target single attack odds or missing can be high. The biggest disadvantage that Warrior has is it's inability to fall back on a combo if one of their combos break from a miss. Other Class can usually fall back on a combo but in Warrior's case they have to wait out the duration of the second ability if they wish to try for the combo again.

Basically what I"m getting at is this. I said this on the translation topic but I think Steel Cyclone should change into a Front and Back 3rd combo move.

Steel Cyclone itself would change to a 45 second recast and the following would change:
Front Attack=Rampage Active=increased Radius/Decreased Attack/Increased Enmity/-15 second recast
Back Attack=Berserk Active=Decreased Radius/Increased Attack/+15 recast

The Front Combo would remain the same Heavy/Skull/Steel but Back would change to have Steel added at the end Path/Whirl/Steel

The overall difference between the two would be
Recast wise
10/30/30
30/80/60
By itself 45 second recast.

Overall rather then just changing it so Steel Cyclone dmg gets reduced with the May 10th VU, they should compensate it by adding it to the back attack combo as well as increasing the animation speed of Whirlwind. The reason why DDing from the front as well as tanking at the same time is so effective is not only because of the quick recast of Steel Cyclone but the quick animation as well. The animation lock from Whirlwind is so long that it becomes for of a hindrance against mobs that have timed AOEs that you can avoid. Unlike Steel Cyclone which fires off then you go right back to attacking.

I just think it would be nice if we could at least be given 3 3 combos rather then the 3/3/2 we have atm, combo wise minus the mages we have the lowest amount of combos to work with and we have to activate them all from different positions.

But ya I just think this would be a nice tweak for WAR, change it in such a way that Steel Cyclone is given a defining defensive/Offensive trait both with their own trade offs. Weaken the attack of Steel Cyclone when it's used for enmity gain since this is WAR's only AOE enmity combo from the front at a 10/30/30 recast meanwhile PLD has a 30 second Flash along with a 60 second one that can be used after blocking. To their advantage they never have to worry about needing TP to perform an AOE for hate but Warrior's either need to perform the 10/30/30 combo or use 2k TP.

I know their are abilities from classes that can assist with said skills but the overall idea of this post is to give others an idea of where each classes combos stand. I just hope WAR is adjusted in a way where we can still be seen as tanks rather then create the same situation with healing where only WHM is seen as a healer lol.

[Morticous]

I think I'm with Alise and as for DRG I feel they should leave the DEF where it is but raise the DPS.

[Krausus]

increasing the cooldown does reduce its damage. warrior has 2 AOEs, and whirlwind is getting a buff. other melee jobs already do far more single-target dps than warrior.

just saying.



class A tank situationally (most situations, currently)

class A dps situationally (a couple situations, but mostly class B-C)

^^^ This

I swear most these people dont play any damage classes DRG, MNK, BRD, BLM can all out DPS a WAR if they try, people just see the numbers from WAR tank position (which means constant uninterrupted because of not having to dodge most things) and all the sudden cry #1 they obviously have not seen or played a good other DD. Steel Cyclone could use a slight nerf but keep in mind it is a job skill its supposed to be pretty powerful the cooldown might be what the issue is. As for tanking they just need to fix PLD. I mean who thought it was a good idea to nerf PLD health and not give it significantly higher defense?

[Teakwood]

'Balance' is a PLD buff, not an anything nerf.

Keep it together, ladies.

[Leoheart]

'Balance' is a PLD buff, not an anything nerf.

Keep it together, ladies.

Exactly; Paladin does not suffer from an inability to tank, if you're struggling to tank on pld, you're doing it wrong.
I'll agree on the fact that Pld does need a bit more HP, but it mainly suffers from it's inability to do damage and nothing else.