Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[Atreus]

I agree with some of the above replies. PLEASE report them and get them banned. That'll show them to either complain about the FT entry system like the rest of us or STFU and help out any randoms that queue in like they're suppose to.
At the moment we have a situation where these premades monopolizing the content are having a field day while everyone else suffers and SE does nothing about it.

Monopolizing implies that they own every instance and can stop you from coordinating your own effort. That's not what monopolizing is, so how 'bout we go ahead and stop slinging that disingenuous word around.

Also, who is suffering...? Holy drama major.

[0blivion]

The people out here demonizing premades seem to not understand that if there were no premades, there would be no runs at all. And even if people only organized in-instance, their entitled attitude towards other people's time would mean they wouldn't get a party, or never clear. You can switch instances. Can't find enough people in another one? Yeah, I figured. Maybe you should consider why that is.

[AmiableApkallu]

"Hey, there's a full group of 48 here. We're hoping to go in all together, but if you want to join us in future runs, check out {link}. We'd love to have you the next time around."

Something else I thought of:

I happened join a Southern Horn instance where Forked Tower was already in progress, with what looked to be a premade from another datacenter. From out of nowhere, "Can y'all kill the FATE at <pos>?" There's no FATE on the map, and most of the instance is stuck in a CE anyway. This is followed by three people using what appears to be the same macro to spam a wall of text whose only potentially useful information is "<pos>." We finally finish up the CE, and a few of us make it over. I mistakenly go to the top of a nearby structure, because hey, surely this is where the FATE will appear. "Has anyone pulled the FATE???" There's still no FATE, but someone finally figures out that what is meant is "random, unique looking trash mob." It's a slog, because there's like none of us there, because no one has a reason to be there.

Apparently, for all the planning that's required, it never dawned upon someone that, "Recruitment strategy for people not in Forked Tower to go do a thing" might be a good idea:

"Hey, there's a full group of 48 here. We're hoping to go in all together, and if we make it far enough in, there's going to be some trash mob outside that you could help take care of for us. The rewards aren't much, but the only other way to get them is in Forked Tower, so that's at least something."

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The more I read about this, the more I am genuinely asking myself why Forked Tower isn't using a queue/matching system similar to Delubrum Reginae, or at very least has the leniency and instance cap to set up like for Baldesion Arsenal.

Making mistakes this punishing on a group scale based on individual mistakes in a 48man is kinda rough. With Chaotic I could at least borderline understand it because its just a fight that you can repeat, but with FT that's different stakes.

I do not think, assuming the story is true, that intentionally killing them with the tankbuster was the fine english way to go about things - having no resurrection should've been enough of a penalty, but straight up killing them is just rough. Like surely the fights are not "that" tight that a single or two goofballs of 48 can ruin *everything* that this was a necessity? What if they never were selected for those mechanics in the first place and they could just handle things based on intuition?

That said, on the flipside if the instance is "this" strict, then holy... Creative Studio III ought to do something there. Either change the entry method so organized runs more or less will avoid snipers or make an "easier" variant that is more like Castrum Lacus Litore/Dalriada and have what is current Forked Tower essentially the equivalent of DR Savage.

[OdinelStarrei]

The people out here demonizing premades seem to not understand that if there were no premades, there would be no runs at all. And even if people only organized in-instance, their entitled attitude towards other people's time would mean they wouldn't get a party, or never clear. You can switch instances. Can't find enough people in another one? Yeah, I figured. Maybe you should consider why that is.

The intent is that no runs are made man, no one even cares to get to that point because people are arguing the principle of the situation over the practicality/feasibility of it. Anyone who has actually researched what FT entails would understand why this happened, and why pre-mades are borderline neccessary because it's too risky otherwise, from the amount of time invested, the deleveling, the resources needed to get a run, it's absolute chaos! The punishment vs time ratio is completely lopsided, and yet, have you seen these posts? People are out here saying would rather have the entire high end playerbase banned and ostracized for being "manipulative sociopaths" for trying to control this insanity, rather than truly hold Square Enix accountable for their innumerable mistakes. We LITERALLY had the exact same situation in Stormblood, and Square Enix deliberately re-implemented a very toxic, and community-hostile entry method for content people had been begging for almost four years now. This is actually even worse than BA, and I was first boots on the ground for that mess. CLL/Dalriada and DRS exist IN THE GAME. It's not like jobs where past mechanics are literally FFXIV cryptids spoke in hushed tones or myths, you can go to Bozja RIGHT NOW and see what successful 24+, instance-wide raids with suitable entry methods look like. Why else did you design the ability for a 48 man PF to exist and NOT USE IT? Unbelievable mistake.

You guys are doing exactly what SE wanted, fighting each other again instead of realizing "Hey wait a minute these developers are deliberately stoking the flames of discontent at some point." Their ever-present, and consistent silence around this screw up is testament to that. I bet they're having a grand old time watching Season 2 of "The Baldesion Sniper", or this would have been hotfixed within a week. Knowing SE, the statement regarding this is probably buried under a metric ton of red tape before any word comes out. A community manager would really be useful right about now...

[DynnDiablos]

The intent is that no runs are made man, no one even cares to get to that point because people are arguing the principle of the situation over the practicality/feasibility of it. Anyone who has actually researched what FT entails would understand why this happened, and why pre-mades are borderline neccessary because it's too risky otherwise, from the amount of time invested, the deleveling, the resources needed to get a run, it's absolute chaos! The punishment vs time ratio is completely lopsided, and yet, have you seen these posts? People are out here saying would rather have the entire high end playerbase banned and ostracized for being "manipulative sociopaths" for trying to control this insanity, rather than truly hold Square Enix accountable for their innumerable mistakes. We LITERALLY had the exact same situation in Stormblood, and Square Enix deliberately re-implemented a very toxic, and community-hostile entry method for content people had been begging for almost four years now. This is actually even worse than BA, and I was first boots on the ground for that mess. CLL/Dalriada and DRS exist IN THE GAME. It's not like jobs where past mechanics are literally FFXIV cryptids spoke in hushed tones or myths, you can go to Bozja RIGHT NOW and see what successful 24+, instance-wide raids with suitable entry methods look like. Why else did you design the ability for a 48 man PF to exist and NOT USE IT? Unbelievable mistake.

You guys are doing exactly what SE wanted, fighting each other again instead of realizing "Hey wait a minute these developers are deliberately stoking the flames of discontent at some point." Their ever-present, and consistent silence around this screw up is testament to that. I bet they're having a grand old time watching Season 2 of "The Baldesion Sniper", or this would have been hotfixed within a week. Knowing SE, the statement regarding this is probably buried under a metric ton of red tape before any word comes out. A community manager would really be useful right about now...

I think at the end of the day, FT is just horribly designed from an accessibility standpoint, and I am not sure what SE was really thinking when they designed it.

[0blivion]

Regarding the add:

Tbh usually tower instances have people volunteering to do it, and if not, pinging a location will work. The reason why people call it a FATE is that they haven't actually done it themselves yet. It was described by earlier clearers as a support FATE, and while that is a misnomer, I think clutching your pearls over that is kinda weird. Like, the mob is ginormous and it's only there if a tower group reaches final hallway.

That said, I agree with Odinel on a base level, but I feel like irrespective of SE being the true assholes here, the willful malice of people unwilling to organize to deal with the SE-made problem is still rather unbelievable.

[Gurgeh]

Hold square enix accountable absolutely. But until then your choice is play within the systems of the game, and don't be so arrogant as to assume your need to clear or make better progress NOW, is more important than someone else's desire to see as much of the fight as possible and make the best of it.
Your stuck with the system as it is.
If the game lets them in they are supposed to be there, and your are expected to play collaboratively within the spirit of the ToS.
Or go play another game if that's not good enough. Which i fully sympathise is probably not.
But you don't get to make people feel shitty and manipulate them into thinking they have no real right to be in place that they DO.
Manipulative, selfish, sociopathic BS.
And no it's not selfish to want to play the a bit of the game within ToS, as opposed to how it is selfish to expect to get to play 'all' the game at the expense of others being left with nothing.
Just go play another game or complain to SE, but don't manipulate your fellow paying players.

[Gurgeh]

The people out here demonizing premades seem to not understand that if there were no premades, there would be no runs at all. And even if people only organized in-instance, their entitled attitude towards other people's time would mean they wouldn't get a party, or never clear. You can switch instances. Can't find enough people in another one? Yeah, I figured. Maybe you should consider why that is.

Disagree, there are supposed to be premades, but they are supposed to struggle and take others with them.
Not throw their toys out of the pram because they can't have it all their way.
That behaviour might be why this is in place.
But who knows SE still haven't said anything.

[Gurgeh]

Come on SE this could all be over by lunchtime next JP day if you just made a bloody statement.
Presumably someone know what they were thinking and this system wasn't designed by an AI hallucination?

At the very least what were your hopes for the FT content over all?