People don’t realize how easy it is to get into raiding in this game

[Kaurhz]

And ignoring the main point made that even older content is made worse with every patch by dulling down the Job to "accommodate future encounter design".

Also calling the Forums pointless echo chamber is quite funny. What are they doing here then? Posting for shit and giggels.

The Forums were supposed to be a place to give feedback and critique, but Devs decidet on absolutely Ignoring the EN Forums entirely why getting a strongly moderated view on the JP ones. And the end of the song and dance is that FF 14 failed to capitalize on the WoW exodus years ago and the death of Terra, they have lost all the players they gained through that and still are using players.
People can cry so long as they want that buhu they be back next patch while numbers are now down to pre Shadowbringer. People are leaving critique is ignored and white knighting every poor design decision made will not prevent this game to go down a slow and miserable end.

To be honest with you, I wouldn't even necessarily put it down to that, but just the simple fact that Square Enix prioritize short form, non-repeatable content in the favor of anything really substantive, all in the guise that it should be easy to get into, despite story locking their content, ultimately amounting to several hundred hours of glorified visual novel cutscenes... So really everything in a preceding patch or expansion is just practically irrelevant in every way, shape and form imaginable.

eChO CHamBEr is just one of those meaningless buzz phrases that people like to throw around this place, because a concept such as widely agreeable on the platform, or given thread is just so foreign.

[Kohashi]

Also calling the Forums pointless echo chamber is quite funny. What are they doing here then? Posting for shit and giggels.

Indeed. Remind me again when was last time dev even bothered to implement something which was made in this particular forum?

Also the same way ppl say devs only listens to Jp forum is pretty much reversed there, where a great deal of JP forum posters complain that the devs only listen to EN ones. An insanely useless circle jerk that brings nothing to the conversation.

[Valence]

Every single game has that. Take TERA, for example, or Blade and Soul. Bosses do the same attack sequence based on HP, while in FF14, they are on a timeline. Ultimately, it's still the same choreography that you need to learn because it has the same triggers. Boss is 90%-> it does X, Y, Z.. you stand A, B, C.

I waited for someone to bring up the HP based triggers instead of the timeline based...

ARR/HW was like that, actually. It's such a small thing but it can have such big consequences on the way a fight goes. Except for the very first mechanic, a lot of the later mechanics will never start at the exact same moment, which means uptime jobs will never be able to spreadsheet it fully, healers and mitigation neither, tanks will need to adjust (ah yes bosses were also fully repositionable 100% of the time), and DPS rotations would also get desynced from the mechanical timeline. This will also keep changing as people gear up, depending on comps, and also deaths or party performance! Combine this with a battle content that wasn't tailored around 2min buffs and with a lot more varied DPS profiles (today everybody is a builder spender with 2min auto nukes), with different party buff timers, and you ended up with something a lot more organic and flexible.

We can of course go a LOT further, and BnS is by far not an extreme example, but the fact that you try to downplay this tiny but huge difference is very misleading, because the gap in difference it makes is big, actually.

Indeed. Remind me again when was last time dev even bothered to implement something which was made in this particular forum?

I mean they still tell us to give feedback there, whether they read it or not. I do suspect them to read some of it in the pvp sections at the very least from what I've seen. Rest is up to guess.
If you have a better alternative or place for people to give said feedback though, I'd like to know it. I would have no problem moving there to give my criticism.

[TheInsomniac13]

I waited for someone to bring up the HP based triggers instead of the timeline based...

ARR/HW was like that, actually. It's such a small thing but it can have such big consequences on the way a fight goes. Except for the very first mechanic, a lot of the later mechanics will never start at the exact same moment, which means uptime jobs will never be able to spreadsheet it fully, healers and mitigation neither, tanks will need to adjust (ah yes bosses were also fully repositionable 100% of the time), and DPS rotations would also get desynced from the mechanical timeline. This will also keep changing as people gear up, depending on comps, and also deaths or party performance! Combine this with a battle content that wasn't tailored around 2min buffs and with a lot more varied DPS profiles (today everybody is a builder spender with 2min auto nukes), with different party buff timers, and you ended up with something a lot more organic and flexible.

We can of course go a LOT further, and BnS is by far not an extreme example, but the fact that you try to downplay this tiny but huge difference is very misleading, because the gap in difference it makes is big, actually.

I think best ecample for this is Haukke Manor Hard
If you do to much damage to fast to the last boss which is quite easy with synced gear level the HP gate for absorbing the last add triggers the moment it spawns usually ending in a wipe.
Paladins actualy have a way to save the run from this happening. By covering the healer they eat the damage insted leaving the healer alive to raise the party again.

Always loved that because it is clearly not what was intedet to be done for this fight but was something unik only Paladin could pull of in that dungeon.

[AnnRam]

Raiding in FFXIV its hard not because the game its but the people.

[Kandraxx]

Raiding in FFXIV its hard not because the game its but the people.

There is this widespread myth that FFXIV savage & ult raiders are some kinda uber pros on par with real esports gamers (you know, the ones who actually earn money while playing real skill based games) when in reality a few clicks on random FFXIV streams will show that they absolutely suck. Like, suck hard. Zero reaction, zero intuition. All they have is ungodly perseverance and seemingly unlimited time to play a script 500+ times until it finally clicks.

[Mawlzy]

Indeed. Remind me again when was last time dev even bothered to implement something which was made in this particular forum?

As Valence notes, the rapidity with which devs responded to PvP requests after the major 7.1. shake-up was impressive, and the changes were generally well received.

Admittedly PvP is likely more amenable to rapid responses from the dev team because it is a closed system. PvE job and encounter design is linked to more content, which makes changes more delicate, particularly when any such changes are being held hostage by the intransigent and short-sighted demands of a section of the hardcore raiding community.

The net result is that PvP in FF14 is now genuinely good, whereas PvE is not.

[Mawlzy]

That always seems to be the detail that a lot of hardcore players fail to notice, that they get the whole game regardless of the content, and yet some of them still have the audacity to call casuals "entitled" when they ask for the smallest of morsels, even though that same food will be delivered to their table too should it be prepared and served.

I think they notice, they're just desperate to preserve their position as most-favored child and resort to fallacious and disingenuous arguments to do so.

[Kohashi]

snip

It has positives and negatives.
The biggest negatives would be that it can be impossible to do unsynced runs, since essentially you can trigger multiple mechanics by bursting down the boss.
Another negative would be that it might be even a lot more boring since if you have a low DPS party, you will see the same mechanics from 100 to 75% (for example), over and over, until you see something new/else.

Also, you are wrong about not being able to have a rigid MIT plan. You can assign certain mits/heals tied to specific mechanics.

Burst can still exist, however, it's about your own personal timer and not the boss per se. As long as you don't have a downtime during the 2-minute burst, you will be ok. Even now, when you don't have, you can still have portions of the fight where you can hold burst to better align with other stuff, like pots, for example.

As for BnS and TERA, I wish this game were combat action-oriented instead of the absolute garbage we have currently in place, but it's one of the main reasons why bosses with HP timeline and hard enrages work there (especially in BnS).
I do encourage you to try BnS and see how punishing the combat and bosses are. Aside from the fact that it's extremely fast paced, if you mess your rotation up, you will hard enrage and you will NOT clear the fight. Every single mistake is a huge loss. The only way to overcome mistakes is by being overgeared, and then you open the can of worms BnS struggled with, people simply kicking you because you aren't geared enough.

As for feedback, you can send it via email.

[Valence]

I think they notice, they're just desperate to preserve their position as most-favored child and resort to fallacious and disingenuous arguments to do so.

I get the reasoning but to be fair, that "us vs them" approach has never been very constructive. Much like raiders assuming that all casuals must obviously like literally everything that's casual (including farming fates, treasure maps, gold saucer achievements until your eyes literally rot in their sockets), assuming that raiders like and play literally everything is probably a little much. You chose not to play savage and raid for many (very valid) reasons, much like they probably chose not to play other facets of the game for many (valid) reasons. The real problem is their release schedule which drops everything into big clumps at once over our head, where the community and the content is especially known for the FOMO (have fun ranking up pvp after a couple of weeks, or clearing savage in PF after the first weeks, pick one) and where all sorts of challenging pve raids release back to back (DT savage tier 1 > DT ultimate 1 > DT chaotic > DT savage tier 2) with literally no casual pve for everybody else beyond the usual grinds that come at expansion release like fates.

It has positives and negatives.
The biggest negatives would be that it can be impossible to do unsynced runs, since essentially you can trigger multiple mechanics by bursting down the boss.
Another negative would be that it might be even a lot more boring since if you have a low DPS party, you will see the same mechanics from 100 to 75% (for example), over and over, until you see something new/else.

Also, you are wrong about not being able to have a rigid MIT plan. You can assign certain mits/heals tied to specific mechanics.

Burst can still exist, however, it's about your own personal timer and not the boss per se. As long as you don't have a downtime during the 2-minute burst, you will be ok. Even now, when you don't have, you can still have portions of the fight where you can hold burst to better align with other stuff, like pots, for example.

As for BnS and TERA, I wish this game were combat action-oriented instead of the absolute garbage we have currently in place, but it's one of the main reasons why bosses with HP timeline and hard enrages work there (especially in BnS).
I do encourage you to try BnS and see how punishing the combat and bosses are. Aside from the fact that it's extremely fast paced, if you mess your rotation up, you will hard enrage and you will NOT clear the fight. Every single mistake is a huge loss. The only way to overcome mistakes is by being overgeared, and then you open the can of worms BnS struggled with, people simply kicking you because you aren't geared enough.

As for feedback, you can send it via email.

- I do not recall a single ARR/HW fight that has problems unsynched. Some stuff can be wonky but generally mechanics tend to skip rather that stack, which is good.

- Any MIT plan has timers in an excel spreadsheet, but perhaps that's static stuff so forgive me for talking from a static point of view. If you raid with any midcore to hardcore static you'll probably have seen the usual mitigation spreadsheets be shared around. Those are usually there to make sure everybody has assigned mechanics to mit. Even in PF today you'll have to adjust mitigation until it clicks because a mechanic will not have enough and people will die, and players will move their thing around to spread it better which will end up looking like an ad-hoc MIT plan anyway.
With more organic timelines you can still have MIT plans but they will quickly collapse when you realize that your Troubadour will not be up for the coming mechanic because you're ahead in the fight comparatively to usual. I like this approach more because it cannot be spreadsheeted, and I hate spreadsheets and memory games, and I'm fonder of systems based around resource scarcity and management.

- I am not sure what your comment on bursting means, and what it's referring to?

- I do not enjoy fast paced or action games, so I'll politely decline for BnS after reading that description. It's one of the instant turn offs that also prevent me to play WoW in spite of a lot of systems that actually do fit my preferences, because I just can't deal with spamming a 1s GCD. I can see why BnS have people getting kicked from not being geared up enough with such a system but let's not pretend for a second this doesn't happen in XIV: people don't get kicked, they get barred from some PFs that do require higher item levels. It's tomato tomato. Perhaps it's less egregious in XIV? But what do you think would happen if we suddenly had enrages like P8S p1 back on the menu everywhere?

- Feedback via email? Really? I don't even know if they're reading so it's no different from those forums (let's be real for a minute, they're probably reading those even less than the forums), and it's not public, which by definition makes it like an exercise in writing essays to the wind. No trace, I'd write something and have my pc crash and lose it all it wouldn't feel any different.