Re: Regarding the Use of Third-Party Programs and Player Safety

[Exmo]

Don't see why it matters if it has or hasn't.

Ok ok. I was responding to this ->

bump. this needs to be handled SE.

we aren't going to magically forget that the bl system you implemented to help prevent harassment, did the exact opposite.

Which made it sound like harassment got worse because of this plugin, but to everyone's knowledge it hasn't.

[Kaurhz]

Ok ok. I was responding to this ->




Which made it sound like harassment got worse because of this plugin, but to everyone's knowledge it hasn't.

Nobody has that knowledge, not even victims themselves will. It's an impossible question to answer.

That OP is correct though. The moment this tool was developed, became public knowledge and mapped a database the size which it has, is the very same moment their reworks to the blacklist system ended up accomplishing the very opposite of what it set out to do. If anyone were to hypothetically set out to harass or stalk someone, this tool absolutely would make it easier. The redesign to the blacklist was meant to make this more difficult and give players more of a peace of mind when they block someone.

[Clockworks]

Nobody has that knowledge, not even victims themselves will. It's an impossible question to answer.

That OP is correct though. The moment this tool was developed, became public knowledge and mapped a database the size which it has, is the very same moment their reworks to the blacklist system ended up accomplishing the very opposite of what it set out to do. If anyone were to hypothetically set out to harass or stalk someone, this tool absolutely would make it easier. The redesign to the blacklist was meant to make this more difficult and give players more of a peace of mind when they block someone.

As of today, 1.067.788 characters have been scanned, which is equal to 923.985 unique players.

Basically very close to the entire game population at this point, but people like the person you quoted will be ready to pretend that it's all fine and no one should worry.

[Exmo]

Nobody has that knowledge, not even victims themselves will. It's an impossible question to answer.

That OP is correct though. The moment this tool was developed, became public knowledge and mapped a database the size which it has, is the very same moment their reworks to the blacklist system ended up accomplishing the very opposite of what it set out to do. If anyone were to hypothetically set out to harass or stalk someone, this tool absolutely would make it easier. The redesign to the blacklist was meant to make this more difficult and give players more of a peace of mind when they block someone.

Ok yes, nobody's disputing that. All I asked was if people are still taking about hypotheticals, and it looks like they are.

[Clockworks]

Ok yes, nobody's disputing that. All I asked was if people are still taking about hypotheticals, and it looks like they are.

"hypotheticals"

You can find any person and their entire alts collection just by searching them in the matter of less than a second, how is it hypothetical how easier this thing makes stalking ?

[ZXN]

Have there actually been any cases of the plugin being used to further stalk players on their alts? We all know that's what it's for and in theory it can be used to that end, but has it happened yet?

That's a "no" then.

Which made it sound like harassment got worse because of this plugin, but to everyone's knowledge it hasn't.

Ok yes, nobody's disputing that. All I asked was if people are still taking about hypotheticals, and it looks like they are.

Sir / Ma'am, all you have to do is say "I think everyone worrying about this plugin is blowing this way out of proportion. This is not that big of a deal, so there is no need for all of you to make "drama" of this plugin" so we can give you your clap and a half for your fishing attempt with your bait/responses and then we can all get back to having an actual conversation.

[Exmo]

Sir / Ma'am, all you have to do is say "I think everyone worrying about this plugin is blowing this way out of proportion. This is not that big of a deal, so there is no need for all of you to make "drama" of this plugin" so we can give you your clap and a half for your fishing attempt with your bait/responses and then we can all get back to having an actual conversation.

You're flying off the handle for no reason. I was asking if people had seen a post or heard something became as a result of this stalker plugin, because someone said something that suggested there was news on the matter. The answer is "no", fine ok. That's all. You're tilting at windmills with your response there.

[Clockworks]

You're flying off the handle for no reason. I was asking if people had seen a post or heard something became as a result of this stalker plugin, because someone said something that suggested there was news on the matter. The answer is "no", fine ok. That's all. You're tilting at windmills with your response there.

That's not what you're saying, you're telling people that the fact stalking is made easier with this specific thing is "hypothetical" until you read about it yourself in the way of news.

[ZXN]

You're flying off the handle for no reason. I was asking if people had seen a post or heard something became as a result of this stalker plugin, because someone said something that suggested there was news on the matter. The answer is "no", fine ok. That's all. You're tilting at windmills with your response there.

You were essentially asking, with your recent posts, for people to give proof that you can see, that proves that this plugin is actually increasing the amount of stalking that is occurring, or if it's just "hypotheticals" that people are going overboard with. You asked for something that is pretty much impossible for anyone in this entire thread to ever prove. There is simply no way to give concrete evidence that this plugin is actually increasing the amount of stalking that is occurring without asking someone who is using said plugin if they are using it for stalking, and I have a feeling they won't be so keen on just going "Absolutely!" to said question so openly. Hence why, to me only in this specific instance since I cannot/will not speak for others, your posts looked like you're just attempting to gaslight people and then give troll responses to them. Hell you even replied to me by opening with me "flying off the handle", which implies that I must be absolute irate with you to have replied in the way I did. I can assure you I am calm and I have no anger towards you. The is the internet after all.

As for "news" on the matter you apparently heard about, if I had to make a guess: then it might be about Yoshi-P leaving a statement recently on the forums some days ago, mentioning that they he and the devs are aware of the plugin's existence and what it does and are discussing to have it removed / take legal action on it, and now several sites are "covering" it.

Link to Yoshi-P's forum statement so players can read it themselves: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Player-Safety

However, due to how this statement is somewhat vaguely worded when it comes to the situation as a whole: some could see this statement as them essentially saying that this entire issue is ONLY because of the 3rd party program, even though this issue only even really exists in the first place because of how FF14's blacklist system is currently implemented and how it handles and interacts with the data it gets. As such, players are still skeptical about this statement Yoshi-P made actually meaning anything until he and the devs actually change how the in-game blacklist handles the data it's getting, otherwise even if they do remove this specific plugin: someone can just make another plugin that does the exact same thing and then we begin the cycle again.

[Exmo]

You were essentially asking, with your recent posts, for people to give proof that you can see, that proves that this plugin is actually increasing the amount of stalking that is occurring, or if it's just "hypotheticals" that people are going overboard with. You asked for something that is pretty much impossible for anyone in this entire thread to ever prove. There is simply no way to give concrete evidence that this plugin is actually increasing the amount of stalking that is occurring without asking someone who is using said plugin if they are using it for stalking, and I have a feeling they won't be so keen on just going "Absolutely!" to said question so openly. Hence why, to me only in this specific instance since I cannot/will not speak for others, your posts looked like you're just attempting to gaslight people and then give troll responses to them. Hell you even replied to me by opening with me "flying off the handle", which implies that I must be absolute irate with you to have replied in the way I did. I can assure you I am calm and I have no anger towards you. The is the internet after all.

You sound mad. If that's not your intent, you're doing a bad job of communicating your intended tone. But listen, it's clear you only want to interpret things in the least generous way possible, so I'm not interested in talking to you. In the world I live in, it's not impossible for a player to post in this thread or on reddit or anywhere else something along the lines of "my stalker found my alt and messaged me from a new account." We don't need omniscience, we don't need 100% concrete proof, we don't need a total player-wide survey. Let's not be idiotic here, come on.

By the way, putting hypotheticals in scare quotes there is weird behavior considering it was a way someone else described this conversation first. But you're trying to make it out like I'm downplaying things because I used the same word that was in a post I was quoting.

Given how quickly you went on the attack and the attitude of some people here that it doesn't even matter if this plugin has caused harm, it really sounds like some of you don't care about actual victims of harassment, like they're irrelevant to this conversation. You spent so much of your post taking about SE and Yoshi-P it looks like all you want is to score points against the devs.