Why casual players don't 'just leave'

[Clockworks]

Because the casuals are having fun, and the vets are just perpetually seething over them, and keeping their subs for virtual houses. The rewards system is super easy to solve too, just make a moogle type event global and 24/7 like daily's and with more grinding options and that's it, literally.

"The casuals are having fun"

Are they ? Lmao, most complaints are literally from casuals, a big majority of them, hardcore raiders are pretty happy this expansion, most is catered to them.

Also "keeping their subs for virtual houses" is actually only valid for casual players considering they dont play much, so they have to actually keep their subs up for auto demo not to hit their house, while hardcore raiders dont have to worry about that since they are active in the game and visit their houses often-ish.

Idk what your point was with that one, but it makes 0 sense.

[TakoyakiLala]

Then who will populate the Limsa aetheryte plaza with countless AFK'd characters? :'(

[NamiRocket]

The content and or game was just not challenging enough. Not for a wow player for sure. And as a desperate ploy to keep wow players hooked, yoship has catered solely to them the last 3 years. Which has led to an ever widening gap between casual and hardcore players.

So, I'd like to touch on this a bit as someone who's been an active WoW player for the better part of the past two decades.

The endgame content in FFXIV is plenty challenging, even for WoW players. I know this firsthand, having brought people from our WoW guild to our FFXIV FC to try their hand at raiding in this game. Some of it can feel even more challenging at times, because it often requires different skillsets than people in the other game are used to. FFXIV raid fights are like a orchestra you sign up to be a part of and, if you fail to be playing your exact part at the time and place you're supposed to be playing it, you run the risk of ruining the entire composition for everyone else in a way that often isn't as easy to salvage. WoW raid fights, on the other hand, are more like jazz. You're given a class toolset and a list of boss mechanics and your focus is of course sticking as closely to the gameplan as possible, but also improvising often when the need arises. Sometimes a person dies and a res isn't handy. Sometimes a boss mechanic clips a channeled cooldown of yours and you have to use another one earlier than you'd planned. Sometimes something isn't interrupted or CC'd when it needs to be and someone else has to step in and make the adjustment. In FFXIV, you learn how to do most fights the same way every time and learning the dance is where the challenge comes from. In WoW, two different weeks of fighting the same exact boss can feel wildly different, because there is a lot more variation in its fights and in what different class skillsets can bring to those fights.

I'm saying all this to say that I don't think it's a lack of challenging content in FFXIV that has driven some people who play both games back to the other game. I think it's the current lack of anything else. If you're not raiding, there's currently plenty else to do in The War Within as a casual player. The same is not currently true of Dawntrail. There's this misconception here that WoW is exclusively a hardcore raider and PvPer game and it's not. That's a big part of it, but they also constantly update the game with other silly, fun, new things to do for more casual players (I've spent the past few weeks slowly working through the current Secrets of Azeroth quests, for example). Because, as everyone on these forums have spent the past couple of weeks repeating ad nauseam, casual players make the bulk of the player base. This is just as true in WoW as it is in FFXIV.

[Mawlzy]

So, I'd like to touch on this a bit as someone who's been an active WoW player for the better part of the past two decades.

The endgame content in FFXIV is plenty challenging, even for WoW players. I know this firsthand, having brought people from our WoW guild to our FFXIV FC to try their hand at raiding in this game. Some of it can feel even more challenging at times, because it often requires different skillsets than people in the other game are used to. FFXIV raid fights are like a orchestra you sign up to be a part of and, if you fail to be playing your exact part at the time and place you're supposed to be playing it, you run the risk of ruining the entire composition for everyone else in a way that often isn't as easy to salvage. WoW raid fights, on the other hand, are more like jazz. You're given a class toolset and a list of boss mechanics and your focus is of course sticking as closely to the gameplan as possible, but also improvising often when the need arises. Sometimes a person dies and a res isn't handy. Sometimes a boss mechanic clips a channeled cooldown of yours and you have to use another one earlier than you'd planned. Sometimes something isn't interrupted or CC'd when it needs to be and someone else has to step in and make the adjustment. In FFXIV, you learn how to do most fights the same way every time and learning the dance is where the challenge comes from. In WoW, two different weeks of fighting the same exact boss can feel wildly different, because there is a lot more variation in its fights and in what different class skillsets can bring to those fights.

Then I would like fights in FF14 to be more like WoW.

[NamiRocket]

Then I would like fights in FF14 to be more like WoW.

Look, I love WoW. I'd probably even say I like WoW more than FFXIV, if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose.

But I think killing what makes FFXIV fights unique in favor of just fully copying what WoW does would be a real bad move. I think the rigid, dance-like nature of the fights in this game is what makes them interesting. I love the organized chaos of WoW fights, too, but in WoW. I don't come to FFXIV for WoW fights. I also feel like the way FFXIV fights are designed caters a lot better to controller players than the way WoW fights are designed, which is probably another factor in why this game is the way it is.

I, personally, like a lot of the changes they've made in Dawntrail to endgame fight mechanics and tells for those mechanics. It's not wildly different than it was before, but it's still an improvement over the way Endwalker fights were often designed. I just really think they need to give people more to do at the start of an expansion outside of just MSQ and raiding.

[Mawlzy]

Look, I love WoW. I'd probably even say I like WoW more than FFXIV, if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose.

But I think killing what makes FFXIV fights unique in favor of just fully copying what WoW does would be a real bad move. I think the rigid, dance-like nature of the fights in this game is what makes them interesting. I love the organized chaos of WoW fights, too, but in WoW. I don't come to FFXIV for WoW fights. I also feel like the way FFXIV fights are designed caters a lot better to controller players than the way WoW fights are designed, which is probably another factor in why this game is the way it is.

I, personally, like a lot of the changes they've made in Dawntrail to endgame fight mechanics and tells for those mechanics. It's not wildly different than it was before, but it's still an improvement over the way Endwalker fights were often designed. I just really think they need to give people more to do at the start of an expansion outside of just MSQ and raiding.

I genuinely appreciate this knowledge. As a kbm player and jazz enthusiast, I have been playing the wrong game.

How to tell the FC...?

[Valence]

Look, I love WoW. I'd probably even say I like WoW more than FFXIV, if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose.

But I think killing what makes FFXIV fights unique in favor of just fully copying what WoW does would be a real bad move. I think the rigid, dance-like nature of the fights in this game is what makes them interesting. I love the organized chaos of WoW fights, too, but in WoW. I don't come to FFXIV for WoW fights. I also feel like the way FFXIV fights are designed caters a lot better to controller players than the way WoW fights are designed, which is probably another factor in why this game is the way it is.

I, personally, like a lot of the changes they've made in Dawntrail to endgame fight mechanics and tells for those mechanics. It's not wildly different than it was before, but it's still an improvement over the way Endwalker fights were often designed. I just really think they need to give people more to do at the start of an expansion outside of just MSQ and raiding.

The problem is that XIV used to have a more balanced approach to this and we had a lot of the WoW model in fights as well. XIV also added its own touch with very specific mechanics that weren't constantly about playing DDR.
So yeah actually, as a XIV vet I'd like fights in XIV to be more like WoW too, because that's what they used to be like. And yet it wasn't fully copying WoW, it was XIV, not WoW, and it played like XIV, not WoW. If it played like WoW I'd be playing WoW.
So far I only feel alienated by everything that's happened to XIV pve, and as a veteran player it feels like a constant middle finger telling me I'm not wanted in their game anymore. I do not know what made them feel they had to change the audience they were aiming their game toward, perhaps they wanted to feel more "unique" as you say, but it just feels like a shit sandwich for those left behind.

[AmiableApkallu]

I'm clearly not adverse to RPGs, exploring an open world, collecting stuff, mindlessly grinding, doing PVP, or getting my balls busted with individual challenges, but for some reason Final Fantasy 14 doesn't really care if I'm here, and a lot of the playerbase outright HATES my presence.

Was I truly, horribly misinformed about what Final Fantasy 14 was? Least of all "friendly and welcoming"? Who was this MMO even for then if I mistook myself as part (not all, just PART) of the intended audience? I can indeed take my money elsewhere, but I was almost certain I wanted to spend it here and told to fuck off instead.

The vast, vast majority of the playerbase doesn't even know you exist, let alone "HATE" your presence. Take a step back, and stop letting a handful of jerks you encountered online define the thousands upon thousands of other players out there.

If you ask for help with something, and you include specific details, you'll likely get constructive advice in return. If instead all you do is vaguely accuse content that's generally regarded as casual as being too hard and not actually casual, then then there's nothing constructive anyone can say.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I would personally say that ESO fits in there as well.

1. It receives regular updates.
2. With the mega servers there's never a shortage of people to interact with.
3. The game world is big and immersive. And with the level sync all zones always stays relevant so no zone will turn into a "dead zone" as zones often do when people have out leveled it and moved on.
4. Players can express themselves with the freedom of choice with how any class can play whatever role. No armor/weapon lock to specific classes. Cosmetic/Transmog system. Players can "equip" skins, personalities (and more) that drastically change how their character looks.
5. Game has a store that sells Cosmetics and more. Only thing people might argue is close to P2W is the optional subscription that gives some perks like an infinite crafting material "bag". Edit: ESO does have crates though. Still optional but they contain a bunch of cosmetical options. So that would be a downside.
6. There's plenty of stuff to do. But one most people from FFXIV might find most interesting is that houses aren't limited and can be decorated with great freedom with a huge variety of items.
   Considering how Houses seems to be what keeps a lot of people from leaving FFXIV.

ESO just announced they are no longer doing expansions. Before this announcement they cut new content nearly in half. In 2024 they moved a feature that used to come with expansions to the cash shop instead.

They are no longer to committing to new content at all - they announced nebulous seasons with no commitment to any volume of content or time frames. Their cash shop which puts most new items into RNG loot boxes is one of the worst on the market if you care about cosmetics and housing. They even listed cash shop items in their latest letter as upcoming content. Some people have spent $700 for a mount due to RNG.

[Connor]

Another consideration is that it's entirely possible to in fact be playing other games but still want to play this one too. At present I also play:

6 gacha games, including Zenless Zone Zero where the only thing left for me to do is the hardest commissions, taking them on one by one.
Marvel Rivals
Pal World
Baldur's Gate 3

I'm clearly not adverse to RPGs, exploring an open world, collecting stuff, mindlessly grinding, doing PVP, or getting my balls busted with individual challenges, but for some reason Final Fantasy 14 doesn't really care if I'm here, and a lot of the playerbase outright HATES my presence.

Was I truly, horribly misinformed about what Final Fantasy 14 was? Least of all "friendly and welcoming"? Who was this MMO even for then if I mistook myself as part (not all, just PART) of the intended audience? I can indeed take my money elsewhere, but I was almost certain I wanted to spend it here and told to fuck off instead.

The problem here is that you really (ironically) can’t treat anything from the FFXIV forums as representative of anything from inside the game itself.

I’ve been playing since 1.0 and I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve seen anyone maliciously call others out, and even in those rare cases usually nobody will respond anyway. And one of those times was my own fault in 2.0 for thinking I could totally get away with joining a clear party of Final Coil - Turn 2. I was absolutely not lol and got heavily abused ofc but I just apologised and left and that was the last I ever heard of it. Oh, and this was on Balmung lol

Basically you have to treat the ‘ffxiv forum community’ and the ‘ffxiv in-game community’ as completely different entities.

(Certain) People on these forums seems to revel in maliciously creating ‘gotcha’ moments of assumed superiority instead of actual conversation or feedback about the game. I can hazard a few guesses as to why lol but that’s a different story. But if you read the forums without having experienced the in-game community, I can see why you’d expect it to an extremely hostile and volatile situation where any moment you’re going to get blown up at for doing 4 dps less than the maximum value lol ( obviously this is an exaggeration for humorous effect I am not literally saying that 4 dps off max is unacceptable)