Please fix scaling, fights are dying so fast now

[Rebeccubus]

Do you understand how min ilvl works or are you just talking randomly? Min ilvl is the lowest ilvl required to enter the dungeon. If the fight itself is easy to begin with scaling it will not fix the issue.

You are like WAY too aggro about this, first off. Second, I think I will leave the discussion of older content not scaling well to someone else because they can likely make that argument better than me with better data (though youre also ignoring what others have said because even IF you were right, it is more complicated than just minilvl). What I will address and repeat is my MAIN point that you also ignored, which is that duty finder should be the place for the original intended experience of the fight, and I will not agree with you if you disagree on what the intended experience is. If someone wants to beat a fight in 5 minutes when it was originally 10, THAT should be in party finder.

[Reimmi]

I'm sure this complaint has been said a million times but I want to keep putting a voice out there in the hopes it manages to get through to the devs.

I just got out of a run of P4N (Asphodelos Fourth Circle) through DF that ended in under 5 minutes. The new player with us didnt even get to see half of the fight. Looking at old videos, the point we cleared with the amount of deaths we had, groups were normally at 50% health left. Content is getting skipped faster and faster and something needs to be done because there are a lot of incredibly good fights, mechanics, phase transitions, etc that are just irrelevant now. Yoship said he cares about us getting to see the hard work of the team but that isn't happening right now. The fact we're skipping stuff like the phase transition of Nald'Thal is insane. All that hard work for nothing.

I don't know if it requires better gear syncing, nerfing of potencies, or what, but its getting out of control. Honestly it doesn't even need to be "old" content nowadays. Our damage is scaling so fast that the only time you get the intended experience of content is on release. Either within a single patch or even in the same one after people get gear, all the content gets absolutely shredded. Clearing a fight a bit faster is fine, but its become too much. We are shaving 5 minutes off of a 10 minute fight without even trying.

I honestly think that if anything, a good compromise is to have just duty finder be where things are synced better. If people want to use pf to obliterate a fight for weekly clears or whatever? More power to them. I more care about the new player experience getting worse and worse than anything else.

They need to lower the max ILVL for pretty much every fight in the game
that alone would go a long way to making fights less boring

[Carin-Eri]

Yeah it's a shame that you don't see the mechanics of a lot of fights anymore
I imagine for new players it'd be disappointing
Personally I wouldn't mind if they worked on how level syncing work, since I believe it's the ilvl that is the main issue
Could be wrong, I remember ilvl being talked about a lot and I don't know enough mechanically about the issue
bottom line is that it'd be fun to see old mechanics again

Not really - because they'd never see them in the first place.

Which is, oddly, more disappointing for existing players. Entering, for example, Aglaia - Nald'thal almost always dies way before they get to use 'Tipped Scales', let alone 'Balance' (in fact I can't recall the last time I actually saw them use 'Balance').
Which means players who know about those mechanics know that the Sprouts in the team didn't get to see it. Whilst the Sprouts are oblivious to the fact that it even existed.

[Kohashi]

No it’s you who don’t understand half the problem

Content is being outscaled in 2 ways

We ilvl bloat it and we damage bloat it

The average PPS of a DPS 1-2-3 is almost 3* what it was in ARR. so even if you MINE ARR content you are still doing near 3* as much damage as the content was designed around you doing

You need to curb ILVL bloat but you also need to tone down low level potencies

3 times the damage? Where is the proof, and on which data do you base these assumptions?

Please run a test. The Final Coil of Bahamut Turn 4 on min ivl vs P8s min ilvl and report back with the findings. ARR had only 2 tiers of savage (Second Coils and Final coils) as opposed to EW where we had 3 tiers (asphodelos, abyssos and Anabaseios).

Also, very strange nobody is talking about Alexander raids (HW) and completing it in 3 minutes.

CT 15-20 minutes vs Aglaia 15-20 mins. where is the issue exactly? Maybe SE should have a better queue system and not throw 1 sprout into max BiS players?

[Rebeccubus]

Not really - because they'd never see them in the first place.

Which is, oddly, more disappointing for existing players. Entering, for example, Aglaia - Nald'thal almost always dies way before they get to use 'Tipped Scales', let alone 'Balance' (in fact I can't recall the last time I actually saw them use 'Balance').
Which means players who know about those mechanics know that the Spouts in the team didn't get to see it. Whilst the Sprouts are oblivious to the fact that it even existed.

True, though if they ever hear of what they missed, they would then likely be disappointed

[Menriq]

original intended experience of the fight

I see this brought up a lot. Nothing will ever make it the original intended experience because things have changed. Not only jobs, but entire instances have been redone.

[Kohashi]

You are like WAY too aggro about this, first off. Second, I think I will leave the discussion of older content not scaling well to someone else because they can likely make that argument better than me with better data (though youre also ignoring what others have said because even IF you were right, it is more complicated than just minilvl). What I will address and repeat is my MAIN point that you also ignored, which is that duty finder should be the place for the original intended experience of the fight, and I will not agree with you if you disagree on what the intended experience is. If someone wants to beat a fight in 5 minutes when it was originally 10, THAT should be in party finder.

You are just one of those people waking up and picking a random fact to be upset about and then making a post on it with 0 data on it.

The core issue with these fights is not even the scaling but it originates from the fact they throw 1 sprout into max level and max-geared players that make little to no mistakes when mechanics happen. If you throw in 24 sprouts in there, they will see every single mechanic out there despite having max ilvl.

As for damage scaling weird, it's grossly not true, especially with MINE. I am currently helping some friends with P12s min lvl and no echo and I am doing 8k dmg on SGE which is in line with what I was doing when the fight was current.

[Supersnow845]

3 times the damage? Where is the proof, and on which data do you base these assumptions?

Please run a test. The Final Coil of Bahamut Turn 4 on min ivl vs P8s min ilvl and report back with the findings. ARR had only 2 tiers of savage (Second Coils and Final coils) as opposed to EW where we had 3 tiers (asphodelos, abyssos and Anabaseios).

Also, very strange nobody is talking about Alexander raids (HW) and completing it in 3 minutes.

CT 15-20 minutes vs Aglaia 15-20 mins. where is the issue exactly? Maybe SE should have a better queue system and not throw 1 sprout into max BiS players?

How in the world would that test achieve anything

I’m saying we do 3* as much damage at say…..level 50 now compared to level 50 in 2.0 which is caused by potency bloat

And you forgot first coil, you know literally the first savage tier and second coil savage as well

[Kaurhz]

The solution to go MINE is ridiculous at best. When you're at the point where you dramatically outgear duties you will be hard pressed to find an entire party to go MINE, especially in the case of normal raids for instance.

After a good period of time has passed you will only get paired with people that already dramatically outgear the fight, at least not without turning the duty queues themselves into utter horror. You are not going to have a constant influx of people that are doing fights on minimum gear upon release, for a varied number of reasons.. Gearing naturally gets easier and cheaper as the expansion progresses, so where you might have had people back when P4N was current on 565, by the time the final patch comes out, they could quite as easily be geared to i600, and by the time the expansion has passed, people will just as easily be on 630, since they aren't going to follow the same path of content or gear progression as other people that will have done it on patch or when it is current.

Any Pre-SB suffers from stat reworks as much as it does bloated Item Level sync, so the issue is twofold to a degree. Seeing as back then we had both Parry and Accuracy, neither of which were damage increasing, and in the case of Accuracy was a wasted stat beyond a certain point. Then you have the potency bloat which just happens naturally.

Just rework older duties so that they are scaled according at least stat reworks in the case of anything Pre-SB, and then put a hard cap on the sync for all duties so that all players can be proper experience the duties, as they ultimately the initial step of learning for most people. It does nobody favors if they fall over, and only makes everything unengaging when you can ignore everything and when everything falls over.

MINE is not a solution, you're putting a band-aid on for individual players that elect to take the personal challenge, and it is not as easy to get a MINE party for older dungeons and raids. Sorry but 99% of people aren't going to care about doing Hades (Normal) on MINE when it is content that went past shelf-life 5 years ago. There is still an objective problem if everything falls over, and if there is no risk of KO because everything is doing such marginal damage anyway.

[programcanaan]

Balance has really been a downward slope since the number crunch and the accuracy/direct hit rework. To make matters worse more and more players are casually using assistance addons/mods/cheats that just keep evolving as well.