Please reconsider an upcoming Black Mage change.

[Valence]

Well it's a matter of perspective for sure. If you take EW BLM, you have a crazy amount of uptime tools and instant casts compared to older BLM versions, but you also need a lot more of them as well, so it makes perfect sense that they'd still feel limited within that context. So it mostly boils down in the amount of the kit and gameplay dedicated to DDR vs other things. I'm not a BLM main so ultimately it's up to casters to decide what they want, but I've had the debate a lot recently within the rphys role as well and it shows the divide between veteran players and newer players as clear as day, the same way it does here. They've changed the game slowly but surely enough that it created two types of populations that aren't playing for the same reason. Unfortunately for me, it's not my type of audience that the game caters to and moves toward, so people that are completely into uptime shenanigans with heavy spreadsheet planning per fight are obviously going to be more pleased than the others.

Minimizing movement was definitely part of the core identity of older caster models, it's just that it was less of a central and primary part than it is today. Melee DPS on the other hand, have always had to deal with heavy uptime concerns and back then they had a lot more positionals and missing them was a lot more punishing (before SB, it could break combos or not trigger certain effects). But if anything, melee DPS gameplay has been slowly occupying all the space and spreading to every other role because that's the type of gameplay encounter SE has chosen to keep while removing everything else, so it makes sense that in order to follow, casters also need to constantly get more and more to keep up. It definitely generates a lot of gameplay around uptime though, I'm not saying this is a lesser type of gameplay, but this is a shift in focus and spread.

BLM if anything has been the caster the least affected by this gradual change and before DT was still referred to as the sole job that's still living in designs of the past. But, like you say, I do not think BLM is changing in order to adjust to the super heavy DDR meta gameplay we have right now, because it's no different from EW. At best you could argue this for that despair change and the third polyglot for sure, but most of the core changes it has had for DT like Flare Star, MP, and everything that made the rotation a lot more rigid and less freeform is not tied to uptime at all, it's just tied to SE trying to streamline it and ensure that people do play it the way they want it to be played under the guise of making it more straightforward.

[AlgernonBlackwood]

The main benefit of the change is that both F4 windows are now equal in length (if you're using Firestarter, like you should be).

tbh, I don't really care if Firedox and Despair are instant or hardcasts, I just want them to be consistent. Making one window effectively 3 sec shorter (it was only a 0.5-1 sec difference in EW) was just awkward.

[GartredZW]

The main benefit of the change is that both F4 windows are now equal in length (if you're using Firestarter, like you should be).

tbh, I don't really care if Firedox and Despair are instant or hardcasts, I just want them to be consistent. Making one window effectively 3 sec shorter (it was only a 0.5-1 sec difference in EW) was just awkward.

This is basically where I'm at right now. The mismatched timings was my biggest issue with instant paradox in the first place, so at least now we get some flexibility with it (the flexibility that is absent currently despite people claiming otherwise without even trying the job.)
I don't like the idea from a conceptual level, but at least it's got an idea behind it as opposed to what they did in 7.0.
At the very least, seeing Yoshi'p playing Black Mage again in the new live letter gives me hope that they'll start fixing the class again. With any luck they'll actually take that leap and just add the cast times back, but you know they don't like nerfing things. That's exactly how it would be perceived.
I mean, hey. Anything's possible I guess.

[awhitet]

I think if they bring insta despair and two ley lines the job is going to be super fun, only thing left would be making the thunderhead timer 40+ or screw it just remove the buff and make it like a healer dot.

They screwed the AF timer with instant paradox so they're doubling it down with insta despair, I respect their intentions, that also will enable different non standard lines that people are already cooking.

We don't know what's coming on FRU or next tier, they may be cooking more movement mechanics so they're trying to help BLM a bit as well.

Your main complaint is that BLM will have more instants so may lose its identity, oh well, EW BLM anyone? That thing was completely busted and if you timed things properly you had 12+ instants casts back to back, which it's impossible nowdays, just try doing panto from TOP now and on EW, it's a different class.

If they end up adding what he's showed in the live letter blm will be in a great spot, only thing left would be doing something with flare star and the thunder buff.

[Supersnow845]

I think if they bring insta despair and two ley lines the job is going to be super fun, only thing left would be making the thunderhead timer 40+ or screw it just remove the buff and make it like a healer dot.

They screwed the AF timer with instant paradox so they're doubling it down with insta despair, I respect their intentions, that also will enable different non standard lines that people are already cooking.

We don't know what's coming on FRU or next tier, they may be cooking more movement mechanics so they're trying to help BLM a bit as well.

Your main complaint is that BLM will have more instants so may lose its identity, oh well, EW BLM anyone? That thing was completely busted and if you timed things properly you had 12+ instants casts back to back, which it's impossible nowdays, just try doing panto from TOP now and on EW, it's a different class.

If they end up adding what he's showed in the live letter blm will be in a great spot, only thing left would be doing something with flare star and the thunder buff.

EW BLM is just as bad from this perspective

Who thought “yeah the turret class should be able to stack 12 instant casts together and may actually have need to because of the fight design”

Not every fight should need you to do a marathon to solve basic mechanics, if square ever remembered coils exists they would have thousands of ideas for how you can make an interesting fight that doesn’t require gutting BLM to make it fit with how much movement modern classes need

[Valence]

Yeah but Square has decided that ARR/HW is the equivalent of their star wars holiday special so... They're altering BLM to the roots because otherwise BLM will remain the ugly duckling of the family.

[Turtledeluxe]

This feels like an overreaction imo. They're trying to smooth out the disruptive experience they created in the first place with all the DT changes. An additional insta cast was inevitable. I think the job still has issues, but it moreso has to do with the changes we already experienced prior to this.

I'll also say, it's interesting that non standard had to be nuked in the same expansion where they rolled out PCT like it's no big deal. Lol And I know it's not 1:1 in terms of the team's intentions, I guess. If anything I think that let's you know exactly where the team stands and where this game is going. Nowhere interesting imo.

[GartredZW]

This feels like an overreaction imo. They're trying to smooth out the disruptive experience they created in the first place with all the DT changes. An additional insta cast was inevitable. I think the job still has issues, but it moreso has to do with the changes we already experienced prior to this.

Yeah, an instant Despair does fix the major issue with instant paradox. But the main thing that I'm trying to ask for is the cast time on both of them back.
If it's between what we have now, and what we're getting in 7.1, I'd probably take 7.1 after a bit of thought and consideration. But if the choice is between cast times from Endwalker and 7.1, I'd pick Endwalker in a heartbeat, even if we don't get manaticks or old Thunder back.
I'll admit, my perspective on this has shifted a bit since starting this thread, but the core sentiment is the same. Black Mage is all about intelligent use of movement when available, long cast times, and a strict adherence to the Enochian timer.
Now anything that refreshes Enochian is now instant only past level 90 (unless you somehow need Paradox, Fire3, and a Fire1 before you run out of MP somehow) The only spells that really have long cast times in single target are FireIV, BlizzardIV, and Flare Star. (taking bets on when Flare Star changes.)

It's not all doom and gloom yet. It'll take a lot more than that to get me to hang up my staff, but I'm never going to not let my thoughts be heard when something just feels wrong about a change with this game.

[Carighan]

I mean, personally I agree, but I also would not draw the line at Despair.

Black Mage already has way too much instant casting and hence mobility available. To truly sell me this fantasy of the boom boom BOOM! mage, I need to not have mobility. Just flat out not. I lose 100% of damage when I have to move, every single time, no exceptions, no working around it.

Of course, in return, when I can stand still I'd be sitting at 200%++ of the damage somebody else can do.

Is that balanceable, in particular in raid content? Of course not. Would it be awesome as a job fantasy implementation? Hell yeah!

[Supersnow845]

Also similar to BLM as I want all casters to actually be casting seriously and considering how their casts have meaning I suggested that you get 1 (ONE) shot at painting your motifs, if you interrupt them that’s it’s you lose them. You need to be damn sure you can finish this painting if you want to paint it. I’m sick of compensation for casters main intended weakness