Ffxiv monthly sub isn't stretching & response to PCGAMER article

[Hallarem]

Its not a "rigid definition" of gambling. Its THE definition. No matter how much you try to gaslight the sun is the moon, that wont change.

"Actually from the right angle, and they both are round" lol get outta here.

Real money rolls being AVAILABLE vs a regular mmo grind? You dont use actual money for rolling on gear in FFXiv. You cant compare a solid sub to that. Thats like saying netflix is gambling. Im not going after your precious games gameplay or story.
Im going after its real money gambling mechanics.
Cash shops are scummy, sub without proper content scummy. Gambling mechanics for real money scummiest. Not the same level, scummy but not the same level.

[Raven2014]

Its not a "rigid definition" of gambling. Its THE definition. No matter how much you try to gaslight the sun is the moon, that wont change.

"Actually from the right angle, and they both are round" lol get outta here.

Real money rolls being AVAILABLE vs a regular mmo grind? You dont use actual money for rolling on gear in FFXiv. You cant compare a solid sub to that. Thats like saying netflix is gambling. Im not going after your precious games gameplay or story.
Im going after its real money gambling mechanics.
Cash shops are scummy, sub without proper content scummy. Gambling mechanics for real money scummiest. Not the same level, scummy but not the same level.

This is like me telling people to check out Las Vegas to see what it has to offer, and you yelling from the top of your lung "NO GAMBLING IS BAD, DON'T GO TO VEGAS IT GONNA RUIN YOUR LIFE" while being entirely oblivious to the fact that Vegas has a lot more to offer outside of gambling, like the botanical garden, the restaurants, the national landmarks, the festival .etc. That's what I advise people to check out but your prejudice is so bad that you can not see Las Vegas for anything beyond the poker table.

Remember Guild War 2? I played that game at launch and played it for 2-3 years. By the time I was done, I had 10 characters and 4 Legendary weapon. The number of dollar I spent gabling on Black Lion Chest? 0. At the same times, I know some people spending hundred dollars a month on it in hoping to win big. I used to recommend that games to people because it was a good game, I just told them not to try to gamble on the Black Lion chest.

In most Gacha games, assuming you're playing nonstop a F2P players usually will catch up in 1 or 2 years depending on how long the game has been out. And I didn't take that statement for granted and hearsay. I've played enough that I'm passed the so call "honey moon" period, meaning now I have an exact number of in game currency I will get each patch. And most of them is enough to get whatever content coming out, guarantee, without spending a dollar. Is that gambling to you, 'cause that doesn't sound like gambling to me. Now can you pay to get more? Sure can, but like I said, you don't have to sit down the table just because you go to Vegas.

Am I saying I'm a F2P players? No. In fact I don't think any of us here had said we are F2P. We openly said we have no problem paying F2P games the same amount of money we put in FF14 because we realize we're getting a better value for our dollar. (So it's kinda funny a few post back you make it out as if we were lying).

Cash shops are scummy, sub without proper content scummy. Gambling mechanics for real money scummiest. Not the same level, scummy but not the same level.

Ah, so just another case of rule for thee not for me and I'm the one making the rule. Just like I expect, thanks for the confirmation

[Hallarem]

This is like me telling people to check out Las Vegas to see what it has to offer, and you yelling from the top of your lung "NO GAMBLING IS BAD, DON'T GO TO VEGAS IT GONNA RUIN YOUR LIFE" while being entirely oblivious to the fact that Vegas has a lot more to offer outside of gambling, like the botanical garden, the restaurants, the national landmarks, the festival .etc. That's what I advise people to check out but your prejudice is so bad that you can not see Las Vegas for anything beyond the poker table.

Remember Guild War 2? I played that game at launch and played it for 2-3 years. By the time I was done, I had 10 characters and 4 Legendary weapon. The number of dollar I spent gabling on Black Lion Chest? 0. At the same times, I know some people spending hundred dollars a month on it in hoping to win big. I used to recommend that games to people because it was a good game, I just told them not to try to gamble on the Black Lion chest.

In most Gacha games, assuming you're playing nonstop a F2P players usually will catch up in 1 or 2 years depending on how long the game has been out. And I didn't take that statement for granted and hearsay. I've played enough that I'm passed the so call "honey moon" period, meaning now I have an exact number of in game currency I will get each patch. And most of them is enough to get whatever content coming out, guarantee, without spending a dollar. Is that gambling to you, 'cause that doesn't sound like gambling to me. Now can you pay to get more? Sure can, but like I said, you don't have to sit down the table just because you go to Vegas.

Am I saying I'm a F2P players? No. In fact I don't think any of us here had said we are F2P. We openly said we have no problem paying F2P games the same amount of money we put in FF14 because we realize we're getting a better value for our dollar. (So it's kinda funny a few post back you make it out as if we were lying).




Ah, so just another case of rule for thee not for me and I'm the one making the rule. Just like I expect, thanks for the confirmation

Sorry mah dude, but its not an opinion. It's a fact, game of chance = gambling. And gambling is by definition worse and more predatory than direct purchases, let alone aimed at a younger audience with low self-control with their money as they are vying for gacha waifus and power in a game thats designed to be slower for people who don't swipe. I can 100% admit that it might have better gameplay and story, easily. A lot of games have better story and gameplay than FFXIV, ESPECIALLY gameplay.

I'll even extend an olive branch and apologize for making this personal, I just feel very passionate about gambling mechanics and lootboxes inserted into games. It was unfair of me. But calling out gacha games for predatory monetization is something I will not stop doing.

[Raven2014]

Sorry mah dude, but its not an opinion. It's a fact, game of chance = gambling. And gambling is by definition worse and more predatory than direct purchases, let alone aimed at a younger audience with low self-control with their money as they are vying for gacha waifus and power in a game thats designed to be slower for people who don't swipe. I can 100% admit that it might have better gameplay and story, easily. A lot of games have better story and gameplay than FFXIV, ESPECIALLY gameplay.

Then why the heck you keep try to derail our discussion. How many times we had told you that we're not asking for Gacha mechanic to be implement, we simply want FF14 to have better writing, world exploration, better patch cycle, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT. The Gacha games are merely examples if people want to see how a modern game should feel and look. Just like when Yoshi told his team go play WoW a decade ago before in order to save 1.0 because at that time, WoW was the best of its class. And today, I want his team to look at modern Gacha games because the biggest one is certainly a golden standard in term of quality.

I don't know if you're realizing it or not, but by showing extreme prejudice against gacha game you're basically giving FF14 a free pass. You're basically making excuse for them, that because they don't make as much money, and Gacha game only has that quality because they make more. That ... is ... BS, and run counter to the discussion. Like I said, it doesn't matter if FF14 not making as much money as Gacha games, if it makes enough money to fund the fail NFT experiment, if it makes enough to sustenance the company when all other under-performance games, than it:

- Make enough to have a 3 months patch cycle instead of 4.5.

- Make enough that we shouldn't be waiting 3+ years for Viera hat

- Make enough that they shouldnt have downgrade VA quality in DT

- Make enough to innovate world exploration that has been the same for a whole 10 freaking years.

- Make enough that we should';t have that sorry tome grind for Relic in EW

- Make enough that people should be participate in a lottery for a house, and have to stay sub to keep their house.

NOBODY was advocating for gambling, NOBODY was saying FF14 should go the gacha route until You show up and go a tangent rant about gambling this gambling that. Again I don;t know if you recognize it's what you're doing, but you basically hand SE a pass by saying "hey since your game is not a gacha it's ok for you to delivery worse product and keep making it worse", that's exactly what you're doing. Your personal belief about gambling hold zero value in a discussion about how can FF14 be improved, in fact it has negative value here because all it does is derailling the discussion from what actually is important. Your personal prejudice is clouding your eyes on what the actual issue being discussed.