After Dawntrails abject Failure of a Story, there need to be serious Consequences

[Mr_Gyactus]

If they keep sticking to console exclusivity, weird decisionmaking trying to kowtow towards the west, funneling money into weird projects instead of into fully futureproofing their cash cow, the best the shares are gonna be worth is 20 bucks and a pack of cigarettes.

Don't think so, but it's irrelevant because it's not our problem.
Samsung is returned to pre-covid levels. Should we care? If I want to buy a Galaxy S24 I'll buy a Galaxy S24, if I prefer an Iphone 16 I'll buy an Iphone 16, and I'm not asking for the resignation of Samsung/Apple engineers because I don't like the latest smartphone.

[honest_psycho]

so.. what is exactly bad about the story? Wuk lamat is annoying we get it, but everything else was okay for me

Here is a mega-thread with dozens of links to other threads, which go into every detail you could possibly think of
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...g-the-DT-story...

[Eyrilona]

I get it, you dont like it. it happens.

however.. the game DOES work, you just dont like the story. you are not alone, but this is completely out there for a demand. since the delivered product DOES actually work.. and wow.. over 3 years... congrats.. some people have been playing since 1.0 so... so what?

look, I am not saying that you are wrong, or the story was perfect or anything... but this is a complete Karen post. they will never re-write the MSQ, no matter how long you hold your breath for. I doubt anyone will be fired, and an apology from the CEO of SE is a pipe dream. is DawnTrail bad sure... but it isnt like millions have left and the sub levels are down to 100k or something, so while bad, it isnt catastrophic. not every bit of music is a platinum record, not every movie is a box office smash... and not every story is a hit.

Sorry, no. This game does not 'work'. It functions. Some important perceptual nuance there for the purpose of whether it will remain attractive enough to draw more new players than it sheds over time.

But what I really wanted to comment on -- Suggesting we shouldn't talk of an emergency as it 'isn't like millions have left and the sub levels are down to 100k or something' is just no way to look at things.

Hypothetically, when you are on an airplane, and one of the engines has failed, there is a weird buildup of smoke in the cargo hold, and 'just one of two cracks' showing in the fuselage, and there is only radio static from the cockpit... would you say "it is still in the air so how bad can it be" ? If you don't declare an emergency until the craft gets to the part where it messily redistributes itself across what investigators will mark as its impact site, then I must suspect you are just not very invested in prevention. In reality, it makes so much sense for everyone involved to manage risks like that, that problem solving protocols exist taking things seriously as early as a single light not coming on on the dashboard.

[Xelanar]

so.. what is exactly bad about the story? Wuk lamat is annoying we get it, but everything else was okay for me

The HanuHanu not knowing about the powers of their own festival float, despite the festival being held regularily and the crops instantly having a huge, visible increase in growth.
Bakool Ja Ja not even being reprimanded for releasing Valigarmanda, still being able to compete for the throne like nothing happened. It's not even clear why he knows how to free the creature in the first place, or why he can openly be a criminal without nobody caring.
The cooking contest rewarding stones only to the winning team by definition, forcing confrontation between half the contestants down the line. Also expecting every contestant to take the same route despite not giving directions on where to go when.
The first dungeon being completely useless, seing how the boat catches up by the end anyways, so everyone could have just stuck together from the very start. No need to search for an alternate route on foot.
Some of the Scions catching up to the infiltration team through an alternate path in Origenics, despite the infiltration team taking what was established as the only available route.
In the midst of a very serious war, a handful of highly skilled warriors just watch passively as Zoraal Ja kills the Dawnservant.
Wuk Lamat evolves into an extremely skilled warrior with no visible setbacks or training that would lead to her becoming stronger.
Deactivating the Endless does nothing. There was no reason to do that.
The WoL silently watches Sphene visiting a child suffering from an overload of levin aether, despite knowing a potential cure for aether overload.
Sphene has no real reason to fight without trying to find an alternative solution together with Wuk Lamat first. Her reason was Zoraal Ja. After his death, she is no longer bound to his will by any means.
Zoraal Ja casually steals the portal key. How? Who knows. He also knows there is a second set of stone tablets. Why? Who knows. It's conviniently never told.


Just to name a few reasons out of my head. There's more, but these should suffice to at least show why so many people are unhappy with Dawntrail's MSQ. Not everyone minds these kind of holes in the MSQ's plausibility. These - among other things I have not even touched upon (Scions being way to silent in the MSQ for instance) - are things that annoy me personally though. Very very VERY much, to a point where I can say with confidence, that I don't like the Dawntrail MSQ. I think it's bad. Unsalvageably bad, unless they decide to do an entire overhaul - which I also believe they should do, even though I know they never will.

[Kazemon15]

If you don't like where the story is going, then drop it. It's the same as dropping a TV show you don't like. Simple. Not everyone shares your opinion. It's not your story or mine. It's theirs. We are just along for the ride. If you think you can do better, go write a fanfic.

[AnnRam]

Yikes no.

Yoshi needs to go away, he saved ARR but that's all. His vision of making FFXIV as a single solo player with monthly subscription needs to go away immediately.

He believes occidental players loves to play advertised MMO titles completely alone to the point that you can do the entire main content without interacting with another player.

His vision of " I want to make everyone feels like they are on the same level than someone who spends 100 hours monthly vs 1 hour daily " isn't healthy anymore it doesn't belong to a MMO.

We could have massive open world with PVP, factions , invasions, world building, FC wars or competitons, interactive raid bosses etc but nope, here we are with less content every patch / expansion , more of the same reused garbage unfun formula from 10 years ago and annoying woke propaganda.

He even failed to deliver with FFXVI.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

This post is an abject failure and there should be consequences. I can't believe someone would waste my time with this.

[Xaphire]

Jesus you guys need to get outside once in a while.

[Jeeqbit]

there has been hundreds of threads

Pretty normal. There was for other expansions too.

negative reviews andhours and hours of essays analysing every possible detail of Dawntrails writing and its myriad of problems.

That happened for Endwalker as well though.

warrants serious consquences.

Not really? Mistakes happen. Not everything is a hit (unless it's made by Soken).

For a game that advertised itself as the "Story-MMO", the story this time around did some serious damage to the game's reputation.

It's still an emotional story with a lot of fantasy and the FF franchise is about emotion and fantasy so they achieved their aims regardless, even if the fantasy was quite a mixed bag.

A lot of Wuk Lamat's interaction with Sphene is about empathy, something a lot of the community doesn't understand, so I can see why a lot of people wouldn't be able to appreciate it. However, I dig when this game's focus is empathy.

Who will look for an MMO, see the good reviews of Shadobringers and Endwalker and NOT be bewildered of the mixed to negative review of Dawntrail?

I wouldn't expect any MMORPG with a lot of expansions to not have a poorly received one, or any game with a lot of DLC to not have a poorly received DLC. One part of it not being as good isn't going to necessarily put me off...

That isn't what makes everyone play the game though. A big part of the draw of the game is:

1. Word of mouth / peer pressure from friends / seeing friends playing it on discord, or content creators they admire are playing it.
2. It's an FF game and eventually people "get round" to this one that they know is more effort to figure out due to being multiplayer.

To a lesser extent, some people play it because it's one of the most popular MMORPGs and they assume whatever has a lot of players has them for a reason, and is therefore good. But this wasn't a factor in the past before it grew to a certain size, while the other two factors have always been the case and the main way the game grows.

I heard that Yoshi-P would ALSO be the director of FF16

He was not the director of FF16. He was the producer. There's a difference. Producer means you just oversee the logistics (ie. the spreadsheet and arranging finance/resources). The day-to-day creative process is handled by the director, which was a different person, because he wanted to focus his day-to-day on FF14.

The current writers need to be replaced

Given the backlash that Yoshi-P has himself acknowledged, this will probably happen anyway (you have to imagine they're having round table meetings over this). There is no guarantee they were ever going to write future MSQ anyway - they cycle people around to different roles in the company which is how they got the position in the first place.

Wuk Lamat taking the top position as a textbook case of a 'Mary Sue'.

If she is a Mary Sue, what does that make the Warrior of Light?

[honest_psycho]

A lot of Wuk Lamat's interaction with Sphene is about empathy, something a lot of the community doesn't understand, so I can see why a lot of people wouldn't be able to appreciate it.

Ah yes, another enlightened poet who thinks all the haters are jsut too stupid to understand.

If she is a Mary Sue, what does that make the Warrior of Light?

Another person answered that question very well:

The difference here is that the WoL is the PLAYER CHARACTER.

As an NPC they would also be hated.
Wuk Lamat is a talking NPC that takes the spot of a silent stand in for the player, the exact same spot.
Be it bonding with NPC‘s, overcoming the odds or be in the middle of the action.
She comes in and pushes the player character out without leaving them anything.

Wuk Lamats problem is that she is written as the MC player character in a game that already has that character for many years now.

What annoys people is that their character is left with absolutely nothing. No role, no agenda, no reason.
DT is a Wuk Lamat show in an MMORPG sidelining the player character.

You can like that and be happy with that, all fine.
But don’t act like those of us who actually care about our characters and are miffed about that change in direction are in the wrong for that.