Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[azaleai]

I can't say I'm surprised by the announcement being how it was, but I'm certainly not impressed by it either. I don't think the issue of missing/misaligned normal map data for femroe face 2 fits anywhere into the points they stated... yeah, it's a 'non-exhaustive list' but. I don't see them making any changes to femroe of all races if it's not something explicitly stated, they have made it more than clear throughout every facet of the game that we're their lowest priority.

The "smoother visuals and a clearer representation of what was intended by the original data" part makes me laugh. A huge chunk of the detail from our normal map just got straight up deleted, and that's a 'clearer respresentation of the original data'...?

Also, mentioning Viera nose smudges being darker?? Is that an issue with one specific face, oooor? Because I could have sworn the main complaint I've seen about the smudges is that they're too light now, fading the bunny-like impression of the face.

I really wish they'd just be honest and say "we made a mistake with xyz, here's what we're going to do to fix it" rather than "this issue is being noticed because of improvement to graphical and computational accuracy", like they're trying to shift the blame onto the tech or even onto us for how we're interpreting the faces, both old and new.

At least I might have less creepy facial animations to look forward to, I guess...?

I'm really losing the energy to care at this point. Guess I should start searching for a new hobby to sink my money into.

[Rueby]

I feel like things taking until 7.2 to ~fix~ just kinda shows me how they needed more time. Now you'll have the camp of people who got 'used' to it apprehensive about the change and those who are 'happy' about it.

The fact that more options are now on the table is good, kinda ehhhhhh that it's a "long term undertaking". If only they paid more attention to the character models, people wouldn't be put into this situation. It honestly sucks.

I read the announcement and honestly? I want to see for myself the changes they wish to implement. I can't help but feel scared.

I'm still really disappointed that no word was mentioned about the eyestrain issues, I know it's off topic, but it feels like the game physically hurting people should maybe get some kind of acknowledgement....Sigh

[noumen0nn]

I think at this point I'm just going to need to force myself to remain cautiously optimistic. Weird PR downplaying aside, it is good that they are moving forward with the goal of matching at least certain aspects of the new models with their Pre-DT shapes.

That said, I really hope we don't have to wait until the changes are actually implemented in order to have a preview of them. It would be nice if they can give us some work-in-progress materials, screenshots, footage, etc. as we get closer so that we can give feedback early if it's needed.

[faiarrow]

Nah that'd require the transparency everyone has been asking for LOL (I wish I wasn't serious writing that sentence...)

Knowing their track record of late it'll be a passing mention in a PLL for a real issue, a 1 hour discussion on a tiny thing no one actually reported on so they can pat their back, and then see nothing until the actual live update. It's hard to have optimism in the face of true character death after a decade.

[Khryseis_Astra]

Like I'm sorry, in what universe can something like this be attributed to "higher polygon count" or "more accurate normal mapping". Is it too much to ask that the devs be honest with us instead of trying to constantly save face and never admit to mistakes or wrongdoing?

This really illustrates the mouth problem so well. I just want my Highlander’s pouty lips back! (Instead of the “duck lips” in every emote like the current mouth/philtrum combo is giving me! lol)

And all the upper lips across most races have the same problem, so regardless of what they detailed, I really hope it’s on the lust of things to fix!

[Doopliss]

Like I'm sorry, in what universe can something like this be attributed to "higher polygon count" or "more accurate normal mapping". Is it too much to ask that the devs be honest with us instead of trying to constantly save face and never admit to mistakes or wrongdoing?

Hey sorry to reply to this a second but I'm literally just now realizing: is the new philtrum and cupid's bow not aligned correctly with the nose in the update? I know human faces are inherently asymmetrical, so I'm not sure if this could be an angle thing or lighting thing or something else? Is that possible here...?

I drew a quick, shitty line in MS Paint through the center of the cupid's bow because I couldn't be bothered to open CSP anymore, but I hope this shows what I'm seeing?


EDIT: God maybe it is just a trick of the lighting now that I look again. I really can't tell. I keep looking at the line on the second image and not being certain it's the center, since the top of the lips are, ironically, more blurry in the new version...

[Cheapshot]

That’s a completely new mouth. My character got a completely new mouth too, and a completely new nose shape and eye shape as well. My eyelashes were swapped for entirely new lashes. The statement released today seems to deny that’s something that happened? Am I reading it wrong?

“As noted previously, these issues are a result of the improvements made to graphical and computational accuracy, which have resulted in smoother visuals and a clearer representation of what was intended by the original data.”

My nose was originally intended to have a flat bridge instead of curved? With narrower and raised nostrils and a less rounded tip?
The corners of my eyes were actually lower in the original data? My mouth was an entirely different mouth in the original data? My forehead was supposed to be less rounded and smooth in the original data??

Eyelashes in particular are being affected by several issues. With the improved accuracy of semi-transparent rendering, more light is transmitted, making eyelashes appear thinner. We also layered multiple textures in order to make up for their low resolution, but with the recent resolution increase, this resulted in darker eyelashes. When we decreased the number of textures to accommodate, noticeable differences emerged.

None of that explains this to me tbh


Those are just straight up different eyelashes, and that was even more apparent in the benchmark before they toned them down for 7.0. (Also nothing was said about how grey my eyes are now?)

I’ve been trying hard to be patient. I just don’t get this response letter. It feels like gaslighting. I’m sure the things talked about are true but it feels like they’ve omitted quite a lot of intentional change or lack of attention to detail to make everything sound minor or incidental and out of their hands.

I guess spin it however, as long as things are fixed and I eventually get my familiar face back I’ll be happy in the end. I’m just saying that this has drained all the confidence out of me. I do not have high hopes after reading it. It sounds like they’re not going to restore the shape of my features that I loved.

[limgrave]

And I completely sympathize with wanting a character with a more androgynous look, or using a feminine model for a masculine/male character. I really bemoaned the first iteration of the benchmark because it basically got rid of that possibility. Although my Face 2 ♀ Midlander, who is supposed to have sharp features and look more androgynous/masculine-leaning, didn't survive even the launch version... I'm trying to cope with her not looking very androgynous anymore, and hope you won't have to do the same... At least ♀ Hrothgar Face 1 can save me.

Not gonna lie, I forgot my character's little face is literally right there. But yes! I do use eye option 3 for him. I feel like they did a decent job of maintaining the identity of the original shape within the realm of the new style, for lack of a better word. I'm hoping for the same unless they feel like dealing with the same caliber of backlash again. Thinking about the timeline for these changes makes me hope even more so that they try to make the adjustments minimal and just sort of commit to what they currently have (save for the more egregious issues, obvs), especially if we won't be getting any chance to provide additional feedback before it's implemented. That's a decent chunk of time for people to have possibly settled into their appearance, only to have it altered again and enter another loop of criticism. Agreed about leaning slightly towards pre-7.0, though, rather than way too far in any other direction. It wouldn't be the worst.

It really is tough... I love creating characters whose identity/presentation differs from their base F or M model, but it's definitely caused a lot of niche issues for me with the overhaul. I can also definitely see how Face 2 Midlander was softened quite a bit, so I feel your pain there... Here's hoping they're gonna find a way to tackle this that won't be too disruptive and that you're spared any more disappointing adjustments. Please be kind to us... LOL

[Risough]

It looks like we've gotten our official response to all the feedback on the graphical update. I was a bit confused by these parts of the response as they seem to conflict:

F. The shape of polygons around the eyes, including the eyebags and inner eye shadows, appear slightly different with certain face types.

In addition to the above, due to the big upgrade to FFXIV's lighting, shadows that were previously not accurately rendered have become clearer. As a result, even if nasal cavities and the like are the exact same shape pre-6.58 and post-7.0, they may appear different depending on such things as camera angle, weather, and lightning. We also ask that you consider these cases as spec, and thank you for your understanding.

The second given example, the nasal cavity, could refer to any section of a large part of the face and both provided cases could conceivably describe the same piece of feedback. I'm left unsure of how to set my expectations. Despite this, I will try to remain hopeful that the adjustments in 7.1 will improve the impression of my character.

I encourage the development team to consider how a feature has appeared to the user since the release of ARR before classifying feedback as spec. While a feature may be more correct to the geometry under the new lighting system, should that invalidate what the user has seen for thousands of hours? Should it take precedent over a feature they chose? Even if it is just a small adjustment, isn't it worth tweaking the geometry and normal maps just a bit to more closely match what feels correct to the user? Ultimately some level of change is unavoidable with a whole new lighting system, but outright dismissing a complaint in this manner should be done as sparingly as possible.

I'd like to thank the development team for their continued work on player character models in response to our feedback and the community team for their hard work compiling and relaying that feedback. It is clear from reading the lodestone post that this thread along with other feedback threads were carefully reviewed and considered. In all my years playing live service games I've never seen a team go to such ends to try and meet player expectations, especially for a game of FFXIV's age. So again, thank you.

[Wyssahtyn]

i'm gonna laugh when they end up screwing things up again. this time without a free fantasia to change to something else.