Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[CidHeiral]

Left is EW, right is DT. Exact same portrait settings.

There’s no brightness to the eyes anymore, the whites seem too gray and dull, and the new eyeshadow (facial trait, not paint) has been darkened and overpowers them, but she looks bare without it. The eyes used to pop out, now they look like black holes.

Personally I think the right side looks much more natural but as Doopliss mentioned, the portrait lighting isn't the best example.

Here is an image I made for some feedback about a lip issue with the face I use.



The whites of the eyes look plenty white to me even though all these images are in shadow. They're a little extra shadowed on the upper part of the eye but that makes sense given that there's an upper eyelid and a brow hanging over them. That is how I would expect light to work and it adds depth. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I'm really not seeing how these eyes could be considered dead, soulless, grey, "black holes," etc.

But again, I'm not trying to argue about it or review the eyes of every player in the game. Everyone should leave whatever feedback they feel is appropriate.

The settings can never be exactly the same, because Dawntrail changed the lighting in the entire game. It's very likely that people who had portraits they liked in EW will need to adjust them in DT because of this, to take better advantage of those changes.

Frankly, in my opinion, I prefer the eyes on the Dawntrail version of your character. They don't look so cartoony and artificial. I do think her expression looks a little different, perhaps moving the light source a smidge would help with that.

My character has smaller eyes than yours, more deep-set, more shadowed by nature of being a male Highlander, and whether or not you agree, I think the new eyes are a vast improvement--the color is visible, he doesn't look slightly cross-eyed anymore, his eyes are more legible, more defined by the actual eyes rather than the single absurdly strong catchlight.

100%

[Astronis]

The comparison between you two is crazy because the dullness/darkness that Astronis had in his eyes in EW is something that Kryseis ended up receiving POST update - he got the clearer view of the eyes that she had in EW lmao. Just these two posts alone show the absolute lack of quality control across the board to make everyone get a good update evenly.
I genuinely have no clue how you look at the picture of Kryseis' character in DT and say its clearer when it literally carries all the things you disliked about your character in EW.

I don't think it's *clearer*, and I can see why, in the portraits, it would be an issue. Those things are *small*. The readability is certainly better in the EW version of Khryseis's portrait, but I prefer the look in the DW version, mostly because I know that the portraits are very small and limited and I'm thinking of how it would look outside it. If the whole game was just the portraits, my opinion might be different.

I actually think a problem with the portrait system is that the lighting hasn't been adjusted for Dawntrail. A lot--if not all?--of the "eye texture flatness" tends to be shown via portrait screenshots, versus the overworld. It's possible to make them look okay in certain poses, but in some others it's actually not possible to get the portrait lighting to hit the eyes just right. I haven't had problems personally on my Elezen, but I have experienced it on some other characters and haven't been able to fix it at all without limiting the poses I can take their portraits in. Overall, this is a wordy way of me saying I think (well, I hope) it is something that should be easy to fix without actually displeasing anyone.

Partly, yeah probably. It looks to be a pretty limited system, and it's entirely possible I'm wrong and the lighting didn't change in the portrait system, which could cause problems, too. In any event, it's not the eye materials that need to be changed if there is an issue that pretty much only shows itself in the portrait system.

That's quite a lot of difference in those comparisons! You know what's really interesting about them, though--the amount and shape of the actual visible eyeball looks almost the same from before and after, but the outside of the eyelids are so very different that it changes our perceptions of how open the eyes are. Subtle things making a big difference. I do hope people get options for things like that--some of the "after" eye are quite pretty, but I wouldn't have wanted to lose the original shape for them.

[CuteBucket]

I don't think I can adequately express how rough the past two months have been for me without divulging that I'm autistic and this game is (well... perhaps was) my special interest, and perhaps the stereotypical dislike of change has something to do with my refusal to fantasia. I used to play daily for hours, delving into any and every piece of content I could, racking up hundreds of days of playtime without ever getting burned out in the slightest. And now? It's not the game I fell in love with, that I devoted years to. Now, on days I don't have raid? I don't even log on. And raid days I'm on for the duration of raid and nothing more, no dailies, weeklies or achievement hunting. I haven't found anything to fill the void and occupy the extra time I have on my hands now either, so I have plenty of time to ruminate on why it feels so wrong.

Suffice to say... If I could 'vote with my wallet' without causing problems for my friends, I definitely would.

You're not alone, I resonate with this so much. I have been trying to find other ways to occupy my time, but...I've just been feeling really depressed and stressed ever since Dawntrail dropped. I really didn't think both the story AND the graphical update would be this bad. One was already bad. But both? It feels like I've lost something dear to me. I've been experiencing grief and mourning something lost. This game has brought me so much joy and allowed me to make friends all over the world that I would have never met without it. I have difficulty going to events with lots of people and travelling is a nightmare, but this game allowed me to overcome those limitations and make new friends. It gave me a bigger social life than I ever had before. I don't want to lose that community. But when both of my WoLs look all wrong to the point I can't even gpose to relax like I used to without just getting sad and frustrated, it kills my motivation to log in and play.

[gllt]

This game is definitely my special interest game as well, or perhaps was. I battled a lot of personal issues I don't want to discuss here in order to continue to play this game just because I love it so much.

Then this graphics update removed the ability to turn off bloom, among other things. So now I can't play the game at all, even though I've had to overcome several barriers to continue to try and enjoy it. It straight up hurts my eyes.

I haven't even spent time seeing if I like or dislike the changes to my characters because I dislike the appearance of the whole game currently.

[Iscah]

That's quite a lot of difference in those comparisons! You know what's really interesting about them, though--the amount and shape of the actual visible eyeball looks almost the same from before and after, but the outside of the eyelids are so very different that it changes our perceptions of how open the eyes are. Subtle things making a big difference. I do hope people get options for things like that--some of the "after" eye are quite pretty, but I wouldn't have wanted to lose the original shape for them.

I've been saying this all along, about all of the faces.

They seem to have been redesigned with the mindset that keeping the eye surface the same equates to keeping the look of the eyes the same, and have restructured the surrounding face quite freely – and the changes to eyelids change the shape of the eye itself.

Additionally, these alterations largely seem to tend towards lowered eyelids and increased rims on the eyelids, which is probably blocking out light from reflecting on the eyes.

As for the colour of the whites of the eyes, some of them are a bit overly white in the old designs but it probably didn't need to be toned down as much as it did.

[Khryseis_Astra]

The settings can never be exactly the same, because Dawntrail changed the lighting in the entire game. It's very likely that people who had portraits they liked in EW will need to adjust them in DT because of this, to take better advantage of those changes.

What I meant by “exact same settings” is that I did not change anything I had the option to change. I opened it up in Dawntrail and immediately took a screenshot without changing anything.

As GreenLeafy said, just look at our eyes… my EW eyes are closer to your DT ones and vice versa! lol so yes I do think yours look better!

It’s not just portraits, but also cutscenes and gpose… the eyes, along with the nose and the mouth, she just looks like a totally different person to me.

[Sairaag]

I wonder what happened to the people that posted early on in the thread when DT first launched. Have you guys gotten used to the changes or has the graphics update just demotivated you from logging in whatsoever?
I ask because it looks like a lot of people didn't fanta into something else despite their grievances. Not trying to antagonize or belittle anyone; disliking the update is totally valid. Just curious where you all stand 2 months later.

Personally I've been trying to get used to the changes since the first benchmark and haven't succeeded. Still, I wanted to play the expansion I paid for. I've finished the Dawntrail MSQ and most of the side content by now, so I've spent quite a lot of time staring at my Miqo'te's face. He still looks like he had eyelid enlargement surgery and lip fillers. While I've been able to play the game and all that, looking at my character always feels weird to some extent now. And still, that's my WoL and the thought of switching to one of my few alts or making him look completely different makes me want to rather give up on the game altogether. My main has always been a specific male Keeper with a specific look and anything else feels wrong.

The fantasia, though... There's nothing I can do about the shapes of the eyes and the mouth, but I might make my character's eyes a slightly lighter colour at some point. I actually like the very dark colour I got in the update, but Miqo'te eyes still have that film-like thing over them, which has a tendency to make his eyes look almost matte black. That would look cool on a different character, but it's not what I want on my main. I'm also thinking of changing his voice; I like the one he has now for the emotes, but not so much for the combat sounds, and unfortunately those are what I hear far more often. I appreciate the extended voice sample menu we have now, really makes things easier.

But above all, I hope for good news when the devs are done preparing the upcoming announcement.

[Khryseis_Astra]

I just wanted to say that her expression looks a little different because they fundamentally changed how ♀ Highlander Face 2's eyes are to a degree that feels a little too extreme to me, and I don't even use the face. I really do hope that is something that gets fixed.

In fairness, they did raise the upper eyelid a little bit since the initial benchmark release, but the eye shapes on this face are still pretty fundamentally different... They took away the rounded, friendly feeling they used to have.

The thing that strikes me seeing them all lined up in that is how much the same all the DT eyes look in shape, while you can clearly see the shape variety in the benchmark pictures!

My Highlander is using Face 2, Eyes 6 in both of my portraits. But yeah I haven’t played her much beyond keeping her island going.

Honestly I could deal with the color issues (ie: eye whites, eyeshadow/liner) if the shape issues (eyes, mouth and the horrible philtrum) were fixed.

[Doopliss]

Honestly I could deal with the color issues (ie: eye whites, eyeshadow/liner) if the shape issues (eyes, mouth and the horrible philtrum) were fixed.

Honestly I feel the same way. I don't really care too much about things like eye textures or pores one way or another... I'd just like missing clan features to come back, makeup that got scuffed on specifically dark skin colors to be a little edited, and shape options that got extreme changes to return closer to their original shapes. If all of my characters still had the same features but in a different art style I'd care a lot less, if that makes sense. I feel like my Elezen is almost there and just needs her lip line corrected. Of course this is just the ultra simplified version of my opinion.

I would like things like her slightly colored pupils to come back (they were really subtle compared to like, female Roegadyn, though, so I don't think my Elezen deserves the same attention as theirs), but if they don't I can deal with that. The way light interacts with a bunch of hairstyles and lights them up like LEDs genuinely feels horrible to me now, but I can wait longer for that to get corrected. My ♀ Au Ra who uses Face Type 2 now has her dark grey limbal rings blast light at night time and gives her an uncanny stare, but I even feel like I'd get over that super easily if her mouth was still the same shape, you know?

I know not everything weighs the same for everyone, though, and I don't say this to dismiss other peoples' opinions. I still sympathize greatly and hope they can satisfy as many people as possible. And for you, especially, because while I do agree the new eye shapes are also pretty, they had essentially removed the impression of all of your ♀ Highlander face type's previous eye options.

Sorry again. I'm rambling and feel like I explained myself extra shittily here, lol.

[Gaddes]

I wonder what happened to the people that posted early on in the thread when DT first launched. Have you guys gotten used to the changes or has the graphics update just demotivated you from logging in whatsoever?
I ask because it looks like a lot of people didn't fanta into something else despite their grievances. Not trying to antagonize or belittle anyone; disliking the update is totally valid. Just curious where you all stand 2 months later.

I had to fanta my eyebrows, but overall I still log in and I still play my character, but I would still go back to my old Elezen's face in an instant if I could. I still intensely dislike how they fundamentally changed most mouth/lip shapes to look much blander and flatter, and how my elezen just can't seem to look as intense/angry as he used to when doing an angry face.