Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[ArcturusWhisper]

Amen to this.
But I guess this trend of the WoL, "needing help" started back in Shadowbringers, and Shadowbringers was so successful they've sought to copy it twice now with how end trial fights resolve. Azem Stone into 8 man WoL team into villain nearly beats them with his big attack, into the WoL getting hypercharged by powers outside of the fight.

In Hades's fight, it was the Lightwarden light combining with The Blessing Light to both shield and increase damage from the WoL team. In Endwalker it's the Prayer bubble from the Scions that save WoL from Meteion's death surge of Dynamis. In Dawntrail... WoL is beating Sphene like a redheaded stepchild, and Wuk Lamat steps in anyway, super buffed, super buffing WoL and it goes from a murder to, "Stop, stop, she's already dead!"

The Dev team seems like a cargo cult of Shadowbringers now, wanting to copy everything Shadowbringers have done, not realizing what and why things work in Shadowbringers. Somehow they seem to think things that happen don't have to make sense on their own, just superficially resemble what has happened in Shadowbringers and people will just like it.

[ArcturusWhisper]

The whole "you just want everyone to suck WoL's dick all the time" has been brought up and dismantled so many times it's getting really tiresome.

You know what, I am one of those players who hated it when "everyone suck WoL's dick all the time", part of why I don't like EW that much is this, I am getting tired of not going two steps without everyone going how awesome the WoL is (other people think we earned it, and I can respect that, but I personally hated that). And also part of why G'raha wasn't my cup of tea in Shadowbringers.

But I still dislike 7.0 and how Wuk Lamat was handled. I don't mind taking a backseat, I like seeing other characters succeed and be praised. But Wuk Lamat in 7.0 is not how to do it. The writing is atrocious regarding this character. It's like taking the worst simping aimed at WoL, ramped it up to 100, and apply to an NPC we didn't even know two seconds ago. Is it any wonder that it grates on so many people's nerves?

[lolnotacat]

You know what, I am one of those players who hated it when "everyone suck WoL's dick all the time", part of why I don't like EW that much is this, I am getting tired of not going two steps without everyone going how awesome the WoL is (other people think we earned it, and I can respect that, but I personally hated that). And also part of why G'raha wasn't my cup of tea in Shadowbringers.

But I still dislike 7.0 and how Wuk Lamat was handled. I don't mind taking a backseat, I like seeing other characters succeed and be praised. But Wuk Lamat in 7.0 is not how to do it. The writing is atrocious regarding this character. It's like taking the worst simping aimed at WoL, ramped it up to 100, and apply to an NPC we didn't even know two seconds ago. Is it any wonder that it grates on so many people's nerves?

What sucks is 7.0 was an opportunity to appease both groups of players. Some key characters (Gulool Ja Ja, Koana, etc...) could've acknowledged the WoL's place in stopping the Final Days (probably should be called something else in Tulilloyal) but pretty much nobody else would've had knowledge of who we are. Instead, people turning into monsters and going on a rampage aren't acknowledged at all, which just felt cheap and lazy.

[ArcturusWhisper]

What sucks is 7.0 was an opportunity to appease both groups of players. Some key characters (Gulool Ja Ja, Koana, etc...) could've acknowledged the WoL's place in stopping the Final Days (probably should be called something else in Tulilloyal) but pretty much nobody else would've had knowledge of who we are. Instead, people turning into monsters and going on a rampage aren't acknowledged at all, which just felt cheap and lazy.

People excuse the "no mention of Final Days in Tuliyollal" with "well the Final Days didn't affect them" which is technically correct but narratively a disaster. And as you said, we can have Gulool Ja Ja and Koana mentioned it, which would be very appropriate - for a leader of a nation to know such threats, and for Koana who's literally in Sharlayan. But no, we better forget everything regarding what came before! This is a new start! It is extremely cheap and lazy!

And talking about "appease both groups of players", I feel like they have actually mastered the opposite. And yes I am talking about the scions. I am a scion lover, so I rather like seeing them around. I know that a lot of people hated them, and I even agree that narratively it's a good time to retire them at this point as a "new start", let new characters shine etc etc. I wouldn't mind them all becoming real background NPCs that don't appear in quests now, and we can go visit at our leisure if we wanted to. But I personally think it's still possible to write good stories if you DO include them.

But what did the Devs do in the end? The devs decided that we are not going to retire the scions. But we are also not going to actually write them at all. On the one hand, we DRAG the scions along on everything still, so people who hated them would hate that. But while we drag them along still, they don't DO anything, and their dialogues are so generic and devoid of character that you can substitute them with a generic NPC, so those of us who love them feel they are as good as not there at all. Can you imagine a better way to just piss off everyone?!

[Zaniel]

What sucks is 7.0 was an opportunity to appease both groups of players. Some key characters (Gulool Ja Ja, Koana, etc...) could've acknowledged the WoL's place in stopping the Final Days (probably should be called something else in Tulilloyal) but pretty much nobody else would've had knowledge of who we are. Instead, people turning into monsters and going on a rampage aren't acknowledged at all, which just felt cheap and lazy.

^ This is absolutely what should have happened. the Final Days should have left a mark, GJJ as a national ruler should have had some intel on what happened overseas and Koana should have had information if not from his Sharlayan contacts then at least Thancred and Urianger. Just have them acknowledge "oh this person escorting around our princess is the godkiller champion of all existence, let's not act like dicks" and leave it at that, no one else needed to know, other than some commentary on the actual Final Days and blasphemies. We could even have a quick 5 second intro as to how GJJ and the Landsguard put down the blasphemies until they suddenly stopped appearing.

[lolnotacat]

^ This is absolutely what should have happened. the Final Days should have left a mark, GJJ as a national ruler should have had some intel on what happened overseas and Koana should have had information if not from his Sharlayan contacts then at least Thancred and Urianger. Just have them acknowledge "oh this person escorting around our princess is the godkiller champion of all existence, let's not act like dicks" and leave it at that, no one else needed to know, other than some commentary on the actual Final Days and blasphemies. We could even have a quick 5 second intro as to how GJJ and the Landsguard put down the blasphemies until they suddenly stopped appearing.

What really sucks is that the Final Days could've been used as a real storytelling opportunity. Upon finding out who we are, Zoraal Ja could've actually felt threatened because we were helping Wuk. Instead of the stupid throwaway line of "This one's dangerous." (Or something to that effect) Once he saw that Wuk had us on her side he could've realized she was an actual threat to his ascension to Dawnservant, he could've become more desperate and unhinged as time went on and things didn't go his way, that way we wouldn't need his character shift to "Daddy didn't love me enough" and avoided that weird whiplash entirely.

Something else that annoys me is that our WoLs pretty much aren't allowed any growth despite 7.0 "bEiNg a NeW sToRy". We've had our hero arc, now it's time for us to learn to grapple with our power and prestige a bit. Enemies could be targeting us for prestige/fame. Others develop out of fear of our strength. In this sense we can go through an almost batman-like arc where we're unintentionally creating a lot of our own problems just by existing and trying our best to mitigate the harm those problems cause to other people.

[Savagelf]

I thought so too. The warriors of light is reborn one who sit Azem seat. Who soul is been divided in to 12 fragments. Adlbert was one those fragments. It clear why is done so that Vanat plan would succeed yet how many of those fragments are still alive or need be regather. SE could do an expansion call soulbringer were WoL is gathering the fragments back to her. The thing with Wuk Lamar she presented a begin to this story one those fragments for reflection of thunder could look exactly like WoL could come and kill Wuk Lamar.

[ovIm]

I thought so too. The warriors of light is reborn one who sit Azem seat. Who soul is been divided in to 12 fragments. Adlbert was one those fragments. It clear why is done so that Vanat plan would succeed yet how many of those fragments are still alive or need be regather. SE could do an expansion call soulbringer were WoL is gathering the fragments back to her. The thing with Wuk Lamar she presented a begin to this story one those fragments for reflection of thunder could look exactly like WoL could come and kill Wuk Lamar.

You know what we call some creatures who have all of their soul shards together?
Ascians.
So really, I don't think Square should give us any more soul shards. We are already at 8/14, which is more than any other person in Eorzea (7/14, or one half), and our soul is by default noticeably denser than those of reflections (at 1/14). I would enjoy more expansions that lets us travel other shards, honestly.

[Papayatar]

What sucks is 7.0 was an opportunity to appease both groups of players. Some key characters (Gulool Ja Ja, Koana, etc...) could've acknowledged the WoL's place in stopping the Final Days (probably should be called something else in Tulilloyal) but pretty much nobody else would've had knowledge of who we are. Instead, people turning into monsters and going on a rampage aren't acknowledged at all, which just felt cheap and lazy.

At least regarding the Final Days not reaching Tural, wasn’t it implied to have only hit specific locations and we stopped it from spreading into a Global event.

Like my memory could be wrong, but wasnt essentially that Thavnir was the epicenter of the start of the final days and things branched out from there. Cuz like aether travels around the world in a web like system, so when Final Days started there it slowly “bled” outward using that web?

And Thavnir is essentially Middle East so anything nearby that was East of it (Othard) was affected. And it branched out West far enough to affect everyone (with blasphemies) except Sharlayan. Sharlayan is farther Northwest and given Tural is even further West, it makes sense they didn’t experience anything because we were able to stop the Final Days before it became a Global issue.

Though I will say, I’d think at least Koana should have been aware of the Final Days. I feel like they made it seem like he’s back and forth between Tural and Sharlayan often so he should have known something about the Final Days. And he could have been used as someone to explain how Tural wasn’t affected (or maybe it was minorly affected like only the sky changed for a real short time).

[lolnotacat]

At least regarding the Final Days not reaching Tural, wasn’t it implied to have only hit specific locations and we stopped it from spreading into a Global event.

Like my memory could be wrong, but wasnt essentially that Thavnir was the epicenter of the start of the final days and things branched out from there. Cuz like aether travels around the world in a web like system, so when Final Days started there it slowly “bled” outward using that web?

And Thavnir is essentially Middle East so anything nearby that was East of it (Othard) was affected. And it branched out West far enough to affect everyone (with blasphemies) except Sharlayan. Sharlayan is farther Northwest and given Tural is even further West, it makes sense they didn’t experience anything because we were able to stop the Final Days before it became a Global issue.

Though I will say, I’d think at least Koana should have been aware of the Final Days. I feel like they made it seem like he’s back and forth between Tural and Sharlayan often so he should have known something about the Final Days. And he could have been used as someone to explain how Tural wasn’t affected (or maybe it was minorly affected like only the sky changed for a real short time).

If that's the direction they wanted to go, then it really deserved some lines because it just seemed like an oversight.

Thavnir was the epicenter of the start of the final days and things branched out from there.

My issue with that is at some point when they were talking about Zodiark's protection, they were explaining that the flow of aether was uneven and like rivers, they would be uneven with currents.

But it really seems like a mistake to go that route in the first place. There should've been time spent dealing with the aftermath of the Final Days, and it could've been used as a good plot device for some things in the Dawntrail story. Random storm that knocked out the roads and the ruined the Hanu Hanu festival? OK I guess, but having to clean up a couple small blasphemies and help rebuild would probably make the world seem more alive. Mamook becoming extra desperate? Well Blasphemies ruining their already hard to farm lands would do that. Valigarmanda's seal weakening? I think you can see where I'm going here. I think it would've been a good opportunity for us to see how the world reacted to a calamity. Plus it would've given Wookie actual opportunities to have conflict and character growth beyond Alpacas and Tacos.