Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[SaraSin]

If possible and if someone has the time, could someone take a screenshot of EW vs DT version of this face? I'd do it myself but I dont think I have enough space for the EW benchmark :/

Sunseeker Miqo
Face 1
Skin 1,1
Jaw 1
Eye 4 Large
Eyebrow 2
Nose 3
Mouth 4 Light 6,2
Facepaint 4 (the slight eyeshadow) Dark Black

I feel like the eyes are way more open now, but it could be the lessening of the makeup in the update and it feels like the lips had injections. I just want to see what it used to look like

[Moonfallen]

My first post in this thread is on page 8, for what it's worth. And my post directed to the community rep is directed to the community rep as a response to the community rep, not to anyone else nor about anyone else. Perhaps you knew that, but just as I would hope you'd forgive someone for not reading every post in a 130+ page thread, I would forgive you for not noticing mine. A fair bit of this entire thread's worth of feedback is not directed toward the community at large. Your stated desire for options does not mean SE will do that. Feedback fearful of what we've got now being taken is not directed at you or the community here because you cannot do anything about that. It's for SE.

You're actually one of the people we refer to when we mean others have come to this thread voicing how and why they are happy with the current update without being hostile, at least for me. We all want the same thing and for the devs to do right by everyone for the absolute mess.

[Glyphs]

I posted this in the matching JP thread too, hence some of the notes on the images, but here are my thoughts!

I'm glad that feedback is still being listened to. I had a lot of fun playing through Dawntrail, but to be quite honest, I still feed quite sad when I look at my WoL... I did not get used to the update as much as I hoped I would, because her face still looks so different.



Eyes:
The iris is smaller, and the pupil is larger. The iris no longer reaches the bottom of the eye's waterline. These changes are intentional stylistic changes, rather than changes due to the lighting. The combination gives the eye a very different shape and feeling. I feel like the sizes could be adjusted slightly, to their previous proportions, for a better feeling.



The "eyeliner" option on Face 1 is now very light. The upper eye feels less defined because of this. Looking between the setting turned on and off, you can see how light it is... I think making this darker, like before, would help. If people do not want this darker eye, they can turn the option off. It's honestly so light, that I wonder if it's actually not working as intended?



Mouth:
The curve of the mouth when smiling is very different to before. This has been my biggest problem when playing Dawntrail... it's so sad to admit, but after loving my WoL's smile for almost 10 years, I now hate seeing her smile. Her expressions simply look so unlike her! Here are some comparison images:



These are all the "Simper" expression, which is the softest smile in the game. The cutscene screenshots are all from the exact moment in each cutscene. As you can see, her smile was quite subtle before, which has now been lost.

I hope our feedback is useful, and that the love we have for our WoLs can be taken to heart. Thank you.

[Ashenfall]

I feel like the eyes are way more open now, but it could be the lessening of the makeup in the update and it feels like the lips had injections. I just want to see what it used to look like

You're not the only one! It seems like we have the same face settings except for the nose and makeup. Someone made a post about the eyes and mouth here and I made a general post about my miqo here and am still working on my diagrams and feedback. I hope the comparisons help a bit!

I originally thought that the new eyes were too big, but it's the same size as the original, albeit a slightly different shape. The original eyes had more contrasting shadows but the current eyes really shows how big they were. I think the original longer, fluffier lashes and dark shadows for the irises balanced out how large Eye 4 was. The current irises only shows contrast depending on the lighting.

The lips are the worst culprit for me and it really ruins things when they open their mouth or use the /think emote. It's like they had to emphasize the bottom lips and philtrum. I liked how cute and dainty mouth 4 was, yet I don't understand their decision for such a bad looking mouth for such a popular race.

As for the makeup, I think the colors are too dark for me, and I was aiming for feminine yet natural tones. I have trouble finding tones that are subtle enough yet still shows up on her face.

[Themarvin]

You still got elderly systems to take care of such as older PC's and PS4.... however system updates to the game will solve that over the years.

[noumen0nn]

If possible and if someone has the time, could someone take a screenshot of EW vs DT version of this face? I'd do it myself but I dont think I have enough space for the EW benchmark :/

Sunseeker Miqo
Face 1
Skin 1,1
Jaw 1
Eye 4 Large
Eyebrow 2
Nose 3
Mouth 4 Light 6,2
Facepaint 4 (the slight eyeshadow) Dark Black

I feel like the eyes are way more open now, but it could be the lessening of the makeup in the update and it feels like the lips had injections. I just want to see what it used to look like

Give me a few minutes and I will!

[SaraSin]

You're not the only one! It seems like we have the same face settings except for the nose and makeup. Someone made a post about the eyes and mouth here and I made a general post about my miqo here and am still working on my diagrams and feedback. I hope the comparisons help a bit!

I originally thought that the new eyes were too big, but it's the same size as the original, albeit a slightly different shape. The original eyes had more contrasting shadows but the current eyes really shows how big they were. I think the original longer, fluffier lashes and dark shadows for the irises balanced out how large Eye 4 was. The current irises only shows contrast depending on the lighting.

The lips are the worst culprit for me and it really ruins things when they open their mouth or use the /think emote. It's like they had to emphasize the bottom lips and philtrum. I liked how cute and dainty mouth 4 was, yet I don't understand their decision for such a bad looking mouth for such a popular race.

As for the makeup, I think the colors are too dark for me, and I was aiming for feminine yet natural tones. I have trouble finding tones that are subtle enough yet still shows up on her face.

Oh my goodness thank you! I could've sworn there was a post about the eyes somewhere but just couldn't remember (right above my own post...) I feel like there's not as many posts about our face sadly. Seeing your post makes me miss our old lips even more they had such a nice,cute, very subtle pouty shape, and none of the updated options come close. Don't even get me started on lip colors and gpose lighting!

IDK how to reply to two different comments at once here but thank you so much noumen0nn it would help me so much in trying to show my friends what I'm talking about with how my character looks different now.

[noumen0nn]

I feel like the eyes are way more open now, but it could be the lessening of the makeup in the update and it feels like the lips had injections. I just want to see what it used to look like

So the eyes are actually smaller now overall, with the biggest discrepancy being the removal of the downward curve along the lower eyelid:



That said, what I imagine is giving you the impression of the eyes being more open is the massive difference in area between the border of the eye and the eyelid. The eyelid is nearly twice as thick now:



My other miscellaneous observations:

• Though not as dramatic as it is for Midlanders, your old eyes had some shading at the top that appears to be gone now, which could also be contributing to the "more open" impression
• The eyelashes are far more uniform and "swept" in one direction now, and the lashes at the outer corner lift upwards instead of downwards like before

I'll post the lip comparisons too shortly

[Cheapshot]

Yeah, I’ve been following this thread since the start and have read every post. When people are civil and say they like something, no one gets up in arms. I’ve only seen minor squabbles break out when someone comes in with hostility and chooses to insult those leaving negative feedback. You know, things like calling others blind, or saying there’s no difference and they’re overreacting etc etc. I understand feeling defensive because no one wants to lose something they like, but to come in swinging is never the answer and thankfully hasn’t happened a whole lot in this particular thread. (Has happened a ton in other threads sadly).

I think it shouldn’t be a hard thing to just be civil and polite and leave our feedback, both positive or negative, without questioning or disparaging others. The developers will take what they take.

[smitten_miquitten]

To bump and reiterate an earlier few posts that are scattered about:

Female Moonkeeper face 4 has a problem with the eyebrows where Moonkeeper eyebrows suddenly became very dark in benchmark 2.
However, Sunseeker face 4 eyebrows look totally normal and match what Keepers and Seekers both had in Endwalker.
In Dawntrail if your Moonkeeper face 4 character has dark skin, you can't see their eyebrows if they have light hair colors like white.

Please make Moonkeeper's eyebrows look like Sunseeker's.

Dawntrail
Keeper VS Seeker

Before Dawntrail
Keeper