Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Raven2014]

You know, thinking about it, does anyone else find it weird that we hear no reference to the Final Days in Tural. Like we get there, and we see no signs that it even happened. Maybe I'm miss remembering, as my brain is desperately trying to make me forget anything to do with this story.

On one hand it really wants to give the writer the benefit of the doubt, rationalizing because Tural didn't really get hit. Remember as serious as it were, we did manage to nib the Final Day sequence in the bud. Only the most severe depressed population - Garlemand which was already nuked, and Tharvanar which was undergoing severed economic depression had an outbreak. The Eozia Alliance countries were riding high in moral due to economic recovery, long term issue resolved and/or just regaining independence didn't really see the effect outside of minority report from small misaligned groups. If you think about it logically, Tural is supposed to be a stable countries where everyone is happy. So it makes sense they didn't see the effect.


So yeah ... I really did try to give the writer the benefit of the doubt ... but than they had to do the Mamook Ja crap. If they've been depressed enough to be killing their own babies for 80 years ... all of my reasoning evaporated, because there is no freaking way their tribe would have survived End Walker. And so I was once again remind of the morbid reality of DT, if I can sum up the approach of the writting in DT with one sencetence:

Always aim for cheap emotional shots at the expense of pace and consistency..

[BigBoom550]

Always aim for cheap emotional shots at the expense of pace and consistency..

This is where I get twitchy with people who say anyone who doesn't like DT is 'media illiterate'.

DT has, moment to moment, decent emotional ideas. The issue is it never actually... does anything to earn them. If we'd seen Bakool Ja Ja struggling with what he's doing in an emotional sense, if we'd seen more desperation, we'd be able to come around to him better. But he had to be a complete villain early on so there's a 'villain' and Zoraal Ja's twist makes 'sense', so he turns into a Captain Planet villain. Erenville's supposed to have a whole lot going on in the last section, but no real time was devoted to setting up his relationship with his mother. I'll be honest, I didn't *realize* Cacihua was his mother for a huge chunk of the story because of the narrative problem that is Wuk Lamat.

Nothing exists outside Wuk Lamat. Nothing. Heavensward had the greater context and wheels of the Dragonsong War moving, Stormblood for all its faults had the stories of Ala Mhigo and Doma, Shadowbringers had the Crystarium and Eulmore. Endwalker's was the weakest, but it made up for that by being the culmination of all the previous stories.

Tural's at peace. Everyone's happy. It's ha-ha smiley happy funtimes. Gulool Ja Ja tells us if nobody's worthy, nobody gets the throne. Our investment is undercut almost *immediately* because we know Zoraal and Bakool are both idiots, and while Koana's an idiot too he's the correctable sort, as Thancred and Urianger did in a surprisingly competent bit of writing for this expansion.

There is no larger-stakes story at play until Alexandria, and by the time that happens they start trying to go into this philosophical bend that had been loosely present earlier in the story, but do it in one of the most clumsy, blunt, and simple ways possible with legacy and remembrance.

But when I say 'loosely' I mean 'Loosely'. They didn't talk about Zoraal's interest in his own legacy, they didn't have characters talking about events from their past- even Wuk talking about things she'd done with her alleged brothers in their youth. That's not there. Gulool Ja Ja's funeral is offscreen. Every emotional beat they try for is either spur-of-the-moment, or detracted from by the fact that Wuk Lamat has to be involved. Constantly.

I really, really hate calling characters Mary Sues but... Wuk *is*. There's no grander plot that exists outside of her. The Alexandrian war was a chance for Wuk to step up as not 'Wuk the aspirant' but 'Wuk the Vow' and she... didn't. She wasn't acting as a head of state, she wasn't reflecting on those decisions, no, it became the story of Wuk and Sphene's conflict, not Tural and Alexandria's.

[Raven2014]

This is where I get twitchy with people who say anyone who doesn't like DT is 'media illiterate'.

DT has, moment to moment, decent emotional ideas. The issue is it never actually... does anything to earn them.

I mentioned it before in another thread, but it kinda highlight the problem with Hiroi as a writer, he is a play writer, not a contemporary writer. You don't watch a stuffs like R&J, King Lear and Hamlet and questioning the "why", but rather you're supposed to be drawn in by the performance, living the emotion from scene to scene. But contemporary narrative need consistency and cohesiveness for a scene to carry impact, otherwise they just fell flat.

Basically, he's someone suitable if you want a short - selfcontained - high impact story. But his skill is ill-suit for a grand epic or a chronicle story.

[Voidmage]

As much as I dislike Wuk and DT, I don't think her real dad rigged a cooking contest. Yes him and the other villagers put clues and the banana leaf, but in order to get that information in the first place, you still have to ask around and show that you genuinely want to know how to make the dish. There's zero way Zoraal ja and Bakool jaja being paired together (by luck) will do that.

Eh there was more than a few clues thrown to her.

Her dad more or less goes „hey you should look at THAT place there *wink*“
There we find a hidden stack with bananas that just so happen to be there.

The actual contest was also strange.
First her father had to be reminded that there was another group he needs to judge.
Second the other group fails because… culture?

The trial was too cook that specific meal, both teams did that and both meals seemed to be the same.
Learning the culture and history wasn‘t specified as part of the trial though.

So yeah I call that whole thing rigged.

The PeluPelu were far more fair in comparison.
ZJ got an Alpaca without the whole saddle and trade stuff and he passed because the PeluPelu actually held true to their word and the specifications of the trial.
To get a Alpaca, nothing more.

[Xellith]

The funny thing about Wuk lamat seeking our help...it doesnt make sense. She barely left her city to explore the "lands" she will govern...but travels basically over the atlantic ocean to "europe" to get our help.

Koana. He has traveled a fair bit and has an education from Sharlayan. He has no real understanding of the culture and values of his own people since he was schooled abroad. He figures this out during the succession, and imo becomes someone worthy of being a leader of Tural. Policies include using knowledge he learned in Sharlayan to usher Tural into a bright future full of technological innovations at the expense of local culture and traditions. Adequate candidate if he can be taught to embrace Tural as it is already. Something he does by the end of the succession.

Wuk Lamat. Lives her entire life in the capital. Has no idea whatsoever of the culture or values of her own nation outside of the city gates. Doesnt think her other brother Zoraal Ja should be leader since he wants war. Policies include happiness for people she considers "her people". (This isnt a policy..) She really is just the brawn behind Koanas brains. It's lucky she was smart enough to offer Koana the Head of Reason job or dear lord Tural would be upstream without a paddle.

Zoraal Ja. Lives in the capital and wants his fathers attention. He craves it. He feels threatened by his adopted siblings and thinks that he has no real legacy and must make his own. Policies include wanting to take his people to war, as he thinks teaching people that war is bad is a good thing. His advisor is his "reason" and he kills him. Terrible candidate. Daddy issues... smh. Where is his mom?

Bakool Ja Ja. Meme who should be in prison.

Out of all these characters I genuinely think the only reasonable leader for Tural is Koana. Wuk Lamat basically just runs around bopping people with a big stick and telling everyone to be happy.

[Voidmage]

Out of all these characters I genuinely think the only reasonable leader for Tural is Koana. Wuk Lamat basically just runs around bopping people with a big stick and telling everyone to be happy.

The only reason Wuk Lamat won is because she got lucky and other people did her work to a large part.

PeluPelu:
She got the help of Mablu.

HanuHanu:
She was lucky with the festival being the right answer.

Giants:
She had the WoL at her side and it was impossible to lose the trial with us

Goblins:
As far as I remember WE were the ones with the connection to that dude in the first place from the boat.
She was lucky he was looking for a job in the first place and that he was ready to throw down the job he had right then.

Hrothgar:
She won because the leads to the bananas was on the eye and the other team lost because... only her father knows.
Wuk Evu also was just there at the right time.
She was able to team up with Koana.

Mamool Ja:
BJJ did a quick heal-face turn because of his mother.
She was again lucky the WoL and scions were there to back her up.

Golden City:
Krile found it and not her.

[SteakDriven]

The only reason Wuk Lamat won is because she got lucky and other people did her work to a large part.

PeluPelu:
She got the help of Mablu.

HanuHanu:
She was lucky with the festival being the right answer.

Giants:
She had the WoL at her side and it was impossible to lose the trial with us

Goblins:
As far as I remember WE were the ones with the connection to that dude in the first place from the boat.
She was lucky he was looking for a job in the first place and that he was ready to throw down the job he had right then.

Hrothgar:
She won because the leads to the bananas was on the eye and the other team lost because... only her father knows.
Wuk Evu also was just there at the right time.
She was able to team up with Koana.

Mamool Ja:
BJJ did a quick heal-face turn because of his mother.
She was again lucky the WoL and scions were there to back her up.

Golden City:
Krile found it and not her.

She got carried.

[Midare]

HanuHanu:
She was lucky with the festival being the right answer.

This part annoyed me more the more I thought about it.

"Oh, you people are going hungry because of a storm that ravaged your fields? Have you thought about just being happy lmao?"

I mean, sure, they brought up all the whole plot device of aether and whatnot... but Koana literally walked in some time later, poured a drop of shiny concoction and solved the problem too?
And the worst part of it all is that Alphinaud of all people, thought "Eh, let's roll with it".

Mamool Ja:
BJJ did a quick heal-face turn because of his mother.
She was again lucky the WoL and scions were there to back her up.

From bully, to sadboi to "I just loooove Poochie!" in the blink of an eye. It was a little jarring.

[Aneshda]

Last Saturday I finally managed to complete this MSQ. After that I had to take a break, so I logged out exactly 1 minute after the last scene with Wuk Lamat and Erenville. Since then I hardly play anymore because I simply lack the motivation. And now I have questions.

1. What was the reason for this MSQ?

2. What was the story? For me it all felt like I was a tourist and had read a boring information brochure about the individual areas and a bit of information about the people there.

3. Why were the Scions there in the first place?

4. Why were we there? Just to smile and nod? SE could have saved itself that. It all feels like "The light is on but nobody is home" ... (For those who don't know what that means = although someone seems to be normal or satisfactory, they are in fact very stupid or useless. I feel degraded from heroine - world savior - god slayer ... to a completely useless thing that was just there. Behind every MSQ there is a message to the players that is conveyed to us directly or indirectly. What was the message of the Dawntrail MSQ? That we are lemmings? Simple-minded, useless? Or that we should still smile even when SE has completely screwed us over so that we buy this stupid story? And friendship ... SE we are not friends, because you don't pay for friends with your hard-earned money. And instead of apologizing to the many dissatisfied paying players ... Yoshi P. prefers to tour the world and be celebrated. All of this says more than 1000 words.



The new maps 5/10 = because there's just nothing going on there, there's no reason to come back except for boring fates. There's nothing to discover. The maps are lifeless.

MSQ 0/10

Music 2/10 = this time Soken was so wrong. Maybe Yoshi should have let him do it alone.

Dungeons 4/10 = thanks to Healer Strike you can be happy if you only die 5 times per run

Trials 4/10 = nothing special, you learn the boss mechanics very quickly

Raid = thanks to zero motivation, I haven't been able to bring myself to do the raid yet

New housing items 3/10 = most of the new items are either much too big or much too small. Most of them are unsuitable for apartments.

New equipment 3/10 = as always, lots of recycled items

Graphics update 2/10 = Elpis is completely ruined, it used to be my favorite map. The grass was so beautiful there before and now everything is a pink mass, lifeless, ugly. My second character, a female Hyur Midlander, looks completely different than before the update. Before she had a slight smile but now every mouth looks terrible. Typical stick up the ass syndrome. Most of it looks the same as it did before the update, I wonder what SE has been doing in the last 2 years? A few shadows here, a few light changes there, making everything a little softer here and a little stronger contrast there... It's all just half-hearted.

[localareanetwork]

Unrelated to Wuk Lamat (sort of), but in the last phase of the final fight of M4S, all around the arena there are family portraits around the arena of Yanna, Eutrope, and Neyuni and (their father, in other ones?) and given the actual story of the raid quests, it's very shocking to me to see that somehow the background of a non-canon fight has more soul and personality to a story than the entire base game MSQ.