For the writers of the FFXIV story

[Cleretic]

I think the shortfall of Dawntrail as a whole is the first trip to Shaaloani, but it's more just because that particular storyline was weak than anything deeper.

I get that by structure of the expansion that story basically had to be disposable, because its actual purpose is to get the WoL helplessly far away from Tulliyolal when the attack hit; I actually approve of that direction, the notion of a villain causing some serious damage because we just weren't there to stop them is actually something we've floated in this subforum. But a disposable story doesn't need to be a weak story, and the first Shaaloani trip was really weak.

I'd also put part of that blame on Erenville, but not in a way where it could've been fixed. Erenville just isn't a particularly extroverted, center-stage character, and has a skillset that doesn't exactly translate into compelling combat setpieces. Of course the part of the story that's a WoL-Erenville double act feels a little empty in comparison to the rest of the expansion, that's just the sort of story Erenville brings.

[kaynide]

I think the shortfall of Dawntrail as a whole is the first trip to Shaaloani, but it's more just because that particular storyline was weak than anything deeper.

I get that by structure of the expansion that story basically had to be disposable, because its actual purpose is to get the WoL helplessly far away from Tulliyolal when the attack hit; I actually approve of that direction, the notion of a villain causing some serious damage because we just weren't there to stop them is actually something we've floated in this subforum. But a disposable story doesn't need to be a weak story, and the first Shaaloani trip was really weak.

I'd also put part of that blame on Erenville, but not in a way where it could've been fixed. Erenville just isn't a particularly extroverted, center-stage character, and has a skillset that doesn't exactly translate into compelling combat setpieces. Of course the part of the story that's a WoL-Erenville double act feels a little empty in comparison to the rest of the expansion, that's just the sort of story Erenville brings.

Yep.

This was the perfect opportunity to assemble the scions and do some deep research on the portal lock near Mamook. It would have been poignant to learn that Galuul once opened it and is the “king” of Alexandria, making the key only react to like DNA (Zoraal in this case).

Zoraal could have snatched the artifact from us right there and run in the gate. This would allow us to get to the throne room just too late to help instead of standing around like idiots. This would also add a “didn’t he just bampf away from us? How did he get here before us?” Etc etc.

Or a million other ways to do it. Then zone 4 could have been more lead up to Alexandria and not yeehaww rubber time.

[Ghost_of_Ebina]

Broadly speaking, once we zero in on a core theme, we're talking about death again; that's not new, or itself all that mature, but it's a very broad subject. And I actually find that Shadowbringers, Endwalker and Dawntrail almost form sort of a triptych of different ways to approach, think about and deal with death.

I agree with this. I am at a stage now where I am struggling with my parents' aging and likely dying in the next few months. As a result, the game really made me think a lot about my own situation. I wouldn't mention any names because that would spoil the story, but I think this expansion really focuses on how we deal with the death of loved ones and how there are different interpretations on memorializing the dead. It really felt like classical sci-fi.

[Cleretic]

Yep.

This was the perfect opportunity to assemble the scions and do some deep research on the portal lock near Mamook. It would have been poignant to learn that Galuul once opened it and is the “king” of Alexandria, making the key only react to like DNA (Zoraal in this case).

Zoraal could have snatched the artifact from us right there and run in the gate. This would allow us to get to the throne room just too late to help instead of standing around like idiots. This would also add a “didn’t he just bampf away from us? How did he get here before us?” Etc etc.

Or a million other ways to do it. Then zone 4 could have been more lead up to Alexandria and not yeehaww rubber time.

I mean, there's large-scale ways to fix a problem and there's small-scale ways. Yours kinda rewrites out a huge chunk of the back half of the expansion, but my angle is to look at the things that first Shaaloani trip is supposed to do on a functional level, and try to fix it in the smallest way. Which is:

1. Get us away from Tulliyolal so we're too late for the attack,
2. Gets us close to where the attack comes from so we still see it (technically optional, but hey, if you can you might as well)
3. Introduce us to the region that's then going to be the backdrop for getting to said source of the attack,
4. Reintroduce Estinien, if only as an 'also he's here'
5. Give us some time with Erenville

And the direction they took was basically 'corrupt sheriff in cowboy town'. Not a bad angle by itself, but Erenville can't really mesh with it, and Zekowa doesn't carry it by himself.

My briefest edit might be that there's already a fix in that list: bring Estinien. As an ex-Bad Cop himself, he's a natural inclusion that'd bring some extra spice, and his dynamic with Erenville could be interesting.

I agree with this. I am at a stage now where I am struggling with my parents' aging and likely dying in the next few months. As a result, the game really made me think a lot about my own situation. I wouldn't mention any names because that would spoil the story, but I think this expansion really focuses on how we deal with the death of loved ones and how there are different interpretations on memorializing the dead. It really felt like classical sci-fi.

A friend of mine directly compared parts of Dawntrail to end-of-life discussions about family, and yeah, I think that's very deliberate.

[kaynide]

...

Agreeeeed on Estinien. We don't know what the .x patches will bring, but it felt very weird that most of what we saw in the trailer with Scions either happened at the very very end cutscene or haven't happened at all.

Just having Estinien in play should have brought a lot to the table in certain downtime bits, and Zone 4 would have been PERFECT to do some shenanigans. Or at least bring in the tribe from the Blu quest line that's supposed to be around here.

Erenville, who seems to be our posterboy for future Beastmaster Party Member, could have had us looking for some rare/unusual beast that's terrorizing the town, or damaging the train tracks, or whatnot. A Cryptid hunt would've fit "USA" quite well.

[Acesfool]

Here's a simple little fact about the DT story. Every portion of the game up to this point has had at least one scene that was known as "that scene". A scene that sticks with you forever. A scene that makes you want to see how the streamers react to it. DT has no such scene. There hasn't been a single thing happen in this story that I'd like to see again.

[Cilia]

Being grim, dark, and dramatic doesn't make a story "mature."

Dawntrail actually features some very mature themes (racial tension, cultural dissonance, and legacy), I just don't think it was written particularly well. A big part of that is the front half of the story spends so much time worldbuilding Yok Tural there's not much room for the back half (Shaaloani, Yyasulani / Heritage Found + Solution Nine, and Living Memory) to actually engage the players with the story. Tellingly, according to the (now somewhat infamous) chart showing who has how many lines in the story, Sphene is second despite only being present for approximately 1/3 of the story. (How valid that data is I couldn't tell you, but it's still true that outside of a glimpse during the attack on Tuliyollal Sphene doesn't show up until Heritage Found and has a lot of lines.)

After the heavy moral and existential themes of Shadowbringers and Endwalker, a more relaxed atmosphere is exactly what Dawntrail needed.

[Cleretic]

Here's a simple little fact about the DT story. Every portion of the game up to this point has had at least one scene that was known as "that scene". A scene that sticks with you forever. A scene that makes you want to see how the streamers react to it. DT has no such scene. There hasn't been a single thing happen in this story that I'd like to see again.

I actually have been thinking about something around this, but I don't think it's a problem with Dawntrail that we don't know what 'That Scene' is yet. That's usually something that comes through in retrospect once the community's really had a chance to chew on all this, it's damn near impossible to identify them in the moment; I think the only one I ever correctly saw as a 'yeah, this is big' scene in the moment was 'together, we shall walk' in Endwalker.

If anything, my struggle in guessing what 'That Scene' will be in Dawntrail is having too many options. In the long arm of history only a couple will really stick in people's minds, but I don't know which ones, especially because we've honestly got a few different categories with contenders.

Emotional death scene? Gulool Ja Ja's the obvious, but I wouldn't count out Zoraal Ja, and I bet a few people would root for Otis'.

Cool action sequence? The defense of Shaaloani, Gulool vs. Zoraal, both attacks on Tulliyolal. Hell, the duel in Shaaloani's got a solid claim if that's your style instead.

The Lore Reveal? I'd personally put my money on seeing Living Memory, but even just the gradual reveal of the gate to the golden city in the Skydeep Cenote holds strong, as does 'the Head of Reason's been dead for years', learning that thirty years have passed in Heritage Found, and the truth behind the blessed siblings, maybe even the south sea isles reveal for a certain crowd. The regulators and 'Alexandria's from another shard' are probably up there as lore reveals by themselves, but those reveals are probably too slow-burn for any part of it being That Scene.

Just the full-force 'this would be in an Oscar reel if it were a movie' emotional scene? Oh, that's got a lot of contenders (and only a few of them are Wuk Lamat). I think the leading contenders are Bakool Ja Ja's and Cahciua's big scenes (you know the ones), but Krile's parents put in some legitimate work, Wuk Lamat's if anything suffering from competition with herself, and I could even see G'raha's gondola ride holding the distance for a certain crowd.

[kaynide]

Here's a simple little fact about the DT story. Every portion of the game up to this point has had at least one scene that was known as "that scene". A scene that sticks with you forever. A scene that makes you want to see how the streamers react to it. DT has no such scene. There hasn't been a single thing happen in this story that I'd like to see again.

Oh come on guys! Didn't ya'll just LOVE that scene where we spent like 3 days stretching and hammering crap onto a train to the loud happy music? That was so emotional and fun! Guys?


Or that scene where someone finally actually got to eat a taco? That was a blast right guys!!?

guys?

...guys..?

[Lyth]

I especially enjoyed the scene where we found out about Lamaty'i's desire for peace.

Jokes aside, I think Dawntrail borrows too many tropes that were better executed in previous installments to be particularly memorable.