Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Banriikku]

The problem is Wuk is a good idea but so badly executed i could scream. Also the writing is from the point of view how literature is rated - simply amateur level. Many mistakes and unnecessary NPC's, too much information in one go without context or connection and not giving the player time possibility to form a connection to a NPC. For that mater Wuk Lamat is a good idea killed by missing writing and bad writing. There is potential but this is not enough. Stardew Valley, Subnautica or The Forest (all of them are Indie games) have better writing then DT... and better antagonist/protagonist.

[Loggos]

The problem is Wuk is a good idea but so badly executed i could scream.

Wuk herself isn't even really the problem, just a symptom of it.

I'm glad you brought these points up because I see it in a similar way.

I don't actually agree with the thread's premise that Wuk ruined DT.

Imo she isn't a bad character in principle. The idea of an unprepared royal heir trying to shoulder a burden far too big her for in order to help her people, and then maturing into this role over the course of a satisfying journey is a compelling premise in my eyes.
(And I think she has a very cool and well-conceived visual character design, too.)

If written well this could have been a really fun story.

But that's the problem, the overall writing of DT is abyssmal and this affects everybody, not just Wuk. But since Wuk is so important she will obviously turn into the most grating reflection of the writers' terrible performance. As a result, people may be inclined to attribute the cause of the disaster that is DT's story to her.
But at a closer look I don't think that's fair towards the character.

It's like the writers got handed an interesting idea and thought "how can we make this as obnoxious as possible? Oh right by cramming the worst parts of any shonen anime's protag into one person and amping up the cringe by 1000%."

Wuk Lamat was a promising MC who got completely sabotaged by the incompetence of FF14's writers' room.
It makes me mad to think what we could have had. She deserved better than that.

[lolnotacat]

I'm glad you brought these points up because I see it in a similar way.

I don't actually agree with the thread's premise that Wuk ruined DT.

Imo she isn't a bad character in principle. The idea of an unprepared royal heir trying to shoulder a burden far too big her for in order to help her people, and then maturing into this role over the course of a satisfying journey is a compelling premise in my eyes.
(And I think she has a very cool and well-conceived visual character design, too.)

If written well this could have been a really fun story.

But that's the problem, the overall writing of DT is abyssmal and this affects everybody, not just Wuk. But since Wuk is so important she will obviously turn into the most grating reflection of the writers' terrible performance. As a result, people may be inclined to attribute the cause of the disaster that is DT's story to her.
But at a closer look I don't think that's fair towards the character.

It's like the writers got handed an interesting idea and thought "how can we make this as obnoxious as possible? Oh right by cramming the worst parts of any shonen anime's protag into one person and amping up the cringe by 1000%."

Wuk Lamat was a promising MC who got completely sabotaged by the incompetence of FF14's writers' room.
It makes me mad to think what we could have had. She deserved better than that.

Maybe the writers were hoping that peace and friendship could overcome their bad writing?

[Loggos]

Maybe the writers were hoping that peace and friendship could overcome their bad writing?

I mean if the power of friendship can save the universe then it can surely also save something as mundane as a continent, right?...right...? :')

[EusisLandale]

I mean if the power of friendship can save the universe then it can surely also save something as mundane as a continent, right?...right...? :')

To be fair, it wasn't just the power of friendship. It was also the powers of "notice me" and "I want to beat you to death or die trying".

[Loggos]

To be fair, it wasn't just the power of friendship. It was also the powers of "notice me" and "I want to beat you to death or die trying".

I mean we all want peace and love and happiness but I'm sure that doesn't contradict wanting just a little bit of carnage. /s :^)

[MissKobayashi]

I'm glad you brought these points up because I see it in a similar way.

I don't actually agree with the thread's premise that Wuk ruined DT.

Imo she isn't a bad character in principle. The idea of an unprepared royal heir trying to shoulder a burden far too big her for in order to help her people, and then maturing into this role over the course of a satisfying journey is a compelling premise in my eyes.
(And I think she has a very cool and well-conceived visual character design, too.)

If written well this could have been a really fun story.

But that's the problem, the overall writing of DT is abyssmal and this affects everybody, not just Wuk. But since Wuk is so important she will obviously turn into the most grating reflection of the writers' terrible performance. As a result, people may be inclined to attribute the cause of the disaster that is DT's story to her.
But at a closer look I don't think that's fair towards the character.

It's like the writers got handed an interesting idea and thought "how can we make this as obnoxious as possible? Oh right by cramming the worst parts of any shonen anime's protag into one person and amping the cringe up by 1000%."

Wuk Lamat was a promising MC who got completely sabotaged by the incompetence of FF14's writers' room.
It makes me mad to think what we could have had. She deserved better than that.

I think this is what I can agree with, her character itself isn't entirely the issue. I believe it's the pacing and writing itself. Being at the level 96-ish part of the story I think watching her grow into her role has only solidified my fondness for her. Honestly I think the characters with the least amount of depth come from the other claimants. They just sort of throw a highly generic trope at them that drives their entire personality regardless of how absolutely insane their actions might seem to make the point. Even with some of them having revealed their reasons, it just feels like a stretch IMO.

[typeaxiom]

I think this is what I can agree with, her character itself isn't entirely the issue. I believe it's the pacing and writing itself. Being at the level 96-ish part of the story I think watching her grow into her role has only solidified my fondness for her. Honestly I think the characters with the least amount of depth come from the other claimants. They just sort of throw a highly generic trope at them that drives their entire personality regardless of how absolutely insane their actions might seem to make the point. Even with some of them having revealed their reasons, it just feels like a stretch IMO.

I would like to echo this. At around 95 or 96, I think she hit the climax of her character arc and she was finally maturing! She just needs some more help (from someone not me) to shore up her inexperience and knowledge, and she can be a pretty decent leader.
We went off to America (with someone who wasn't her) and I had a pretty good impression of her.
And then she came crashing back into the story and I felt sick to my stomach.

[Tethan]

snip

This is the real take. Wuk is a victim of awful writing, a symptom, not the cause.

She could have been a compelling character, there are so many other directions they could have gone, but instead we got a Mary Sue, and I DO NOT use those words lightly, I know it's a term that gets thrown around a lot willy nilly but here it is only appropriate.

She is a like a black hole that the plot is orbiting, everything get sucked in and becomes about her. When she faces a problem, a solution is dropped into her lap within minutes. Her views and beliefs are NEVER questioned. She NEVER struggles, she NEVER fails, she is NEVER wrong. Her flaws are.. being afraid of heights (? Immediately forgotten in that one cutscene, if you know, you know), motion sickness?? Kind of like how every other YA audience self insert character has the "flaw" of.. being a little bit clumsy. Wow.

Worse though is how she affects the characters around her. EVERYONE loves her, EVERYONE supports her, EVERYONE is just.. so, SO proud of her omigosh she has grown SO much, we are told. Constantly told told told, never shown. But she is exactly the same as she was in the beginning. Tell me, what did she learn? That the true meaning of peace is... everyone living together in happiness? Wow, riveting. No one ever thought of that. But anyway, if you don't support, love and cherish her dearly, you are either evil or will change your mind.

Everything is about her, even if she is not on screen. The rest of the cast get NOTHING to work with. And Koana.... He actually grew, learned, changed his perspective. And yet..

Spoilers:

He sacrificed his own chances of winning FOR HER and at the ascension ceremony this game has the GALL to act like... like he should so grateful for his dear, generous sister giving him this opportunity he clearly doesn't deserve. Watching that crowd dote on Wuk while hemming and hawing at the thought of him being co-leader... was gross. Gross, gross writing. And of course it was HER idea, this incredibly obvious solution of co-leading. Only Wuk Lamat, the kindest, most generous, peacefulest person ever, could come up with this idea.

Frankly infuriating. Imagine a different plot, where she DID struggle, where she was questioned, ridiculed for her naive ideas. Imagine she learned through suffering. Imagine she came to you for advice, imagine you REALLY were a mentor and not a... fanboy? They make it seem like my character is in love with her or something, it's gross!

Remember Alphinaud in HW? He had just had EVERYTHING taken from him, everything just fell apart right in front of him, he is lost, exiled, has only you and Tataru to rely on. He thought he had all the answer but was humbled, and through that he became ready to learn, from you, from Estinien, from Ysayle. To me, this was some of the best character development in the MSQ.

[Loggos]

snip

Yep, said it perfectly.

He sacrificed his own chances of winning FOR HER and at the ascension ceremony this game has the GALL to act like... like he should so grateful for his dear, generous sister giving him this opportunity he clearly doesn't deserve. Watching that crowd dote on Wuk while hemming and hawing at the thought of him being co-leader... was gross. Gross, gross writing. And of course it was HER idea, this incredibly obvious solution of co-leading. Only Wuk Lamat, the kindest, most generous, peacefulest person ever, could come up with this idea.

This part angered me so much as well, especially in the context of what had conspired just before that. I just couldn't believe it.

(Spoiler 7th keystone challenge)

They clearly solved the problem together, each bringing their respective strength to the table. Without Wuk they wouldn't have been able to talk to the villagers and figure out the problem but it was Koana who actualls solved it with his science.

His contribution was in no way inferior and yet what he took from the events was that Wuk is "clearly superior and more fit to rule", even though without him she'd have failed just as hard as he would have without her.

The villagers wouldn't have put any trust in her words when they returned, if he hadn't come up with a solution to the soil problem.

So it was not only really disappointing that the villagers' praise wasn't given to both of them, but also that the narrative didn't question his giving up at all. Nobody of the cast encouraged him or told him his efforts were worth just as much.

We were just left with the message that his forfeiting was clearly the right choice.

I would have respected it if it was purely tactical to defeat the shade. As in: both are equally acknowledged but they know in order to beat the trial one of them has to give up so they can join forces. And then they could have decided that she has higher chances of winning because the WoL's on her side or something but they'd have agreed here and there (in a Meaningful Cutscene(TM)) they'll rule together as siblings.

It really bothered me how the narrative constantly dunked on the idea of advancement being inherently worse than "uniting the people with friendship" and keeping traditions.

Ironically in the Wild West themed world, when you visit the Miqo'te tribe, they have a short but much more nuanced and mature discussion of this topic than Wuk Lamat ever had during her whole arc.

Granted, after Koana has learned his lesson the benefits of his science are acknowledged and his speech about progress while preserving cultural heritage is good character growth.

But he was one side of the coin: good at one thing (science), blind to the other (people). Wuk was the opposite: blind to science, good at people. Both are needed for a good rule (which luckily is the story's conclusion at least).

But imo this means Wuk should also have had the same reality check that Koana needed, only in reverse.

Because in the end, her ideals couldn't protect the people against every threat. If all people stood together in harmony that wouldn't magically equip them with tools to defend themselves against all kinds of enemies, as the story literally shows later on. It's Koana's science that's used for defenses.

If the story had given both of them equal learning moments and led them together like that, their dynamic would have been much more enjoyable, while giving Wuk so much more depth.

But this insistence that "happy people" >>>>> "everything else, no matter how reasonable" bolstered by insipid platitudes really killed her characterisation.