What Dawntrail Changes Were for the Worse?

[ZephyrMenodora]

100% agree with this, it's been so frustrating I spend almost and entire minute of time just pressing 1,2,3 it's so damn dull. What's the double slap in the face for this is war and paladin got to keep their damage dealing gap closers. Havent' quite worked with the numbers yet but I actually think it might be more viable to just do hard slash syphon strike on repeat as it gives you higher mana return allowing for an extra edge in the filler.

Not sure why Plunge was removed. Who benefits from it?

It gave people looking for more to do something to weave. And casuals who didn't feel like putting in extra button presses weren't missing out on that much potency - certainly not enough that it matters for the content they are doing.

[grinkdaboy]

Not sure why Plunge was removed. Who benefits from it?

It gave people looking for more to do something to weave. And casuals who didn't feel like putting in extra button presses weren't missing out on that much potency - certainly not enough that it matters for the content they are doing.

drk burst was plenty busy before and a lot of people didn't like having to weave in very weak ogcds when they could be pressing other buttons. gap closers being dps neutral should be the standard rather than something you feel like you have to burn

[OdinelStarrei]

Not sure why Plunge was removed. Who benefits from it?

It gave people looking for more to do something to weave. And casuals who didn't feel like putting in extra button presses weren't missing out on that much potency - certainly not enough that it matters for the content they are doing.

Allow me.

The argument being put forth for Plunge's removal is that it reduces the amount of buttons being pressed in DRK's burst window. That's the reason that was given, but as you pointed out, it makes little sense, because us DRK mains only play it for that high APM. It's the only time when the job extends past 1-2-3 gauge spender, so the removal of 2 oGCDs and potential fight optimization is a net loss for the job. I don't know who actually gains from this.

Further more, Shadowstride, as cool as it is thematically for those who are okay with losing the Berserk reference, has the "unintended?" drawback of nerfing Enhanced Unmend, a trait that was already the laughing stock of the game. Now you can't even get theoretical potency gains off increased Plunges. Doesn't even return the entire Shadowstride, it's still five seconds. Meanwhile Raiton, something you actually use, gives you FREE Shukuchis on NIN.

Like, why not have Shadowstride TURN INTO Plunge after using Unmend? Like how SAM/RPR's change when they are forced to disengage? Why am I not allowed to gapclose to friends if I'm not hitting them with my giant sword? If you're going to give me Thunderclap, why not go all the way?

There's an inverse relationship with how much I want to say about DRK vs what was meaningfully added to the job this time around. Three expansions running, and we're still failing to meet our potential.

[GoatOfWar]

Allow me.

The argument being put forth for Plunge's removal is that it reduces the amount of buttons being pressed in DRK's burst window. That's the reason that was given, but as you pointed it, it makes little sense, because us DRK mains only play it for that high APM. It's the only time when the job extends past 1-2-3 gauge spender, so the removal of 2 oGCDs and potential fight optimization is a net loss for the job.

Further more, Shadowstride, as cool as it is thematically for those who are okay with losing the Berserk reference, has the "unintended?" drawback of nerfing Enhanced Unmend, a trait that was already the laughing stock of the game. Now you can't even get theoretical potency gains off increased Plunges. Doesn't even return the entire Shadowstride, it's still five seconds. Meanwhile Raiton, something you actually use, gives you FREE Shukuchis on NIN.

Like, why not have Shadowstride TURN INTO Plunge after using Unmend? Like how SAM/RPR's change when they are forced to disengage? Why am I not allowed to gapclose to friends if I'm not hitting them with my giant sword? If you're going to give me Thunderclap, why not go all the way?

There's an inverse relationship with how much I want to say about DRK vs what was meaningfully added to the job this time around. Three expansions running, and we're still failing to meet our potential.

It's depressing when you look at all the love War got (again) No amount of favouritism makes me want to play Warrior.
Patch after patch after patch, the favouritism just continues. Drk has absolutely nothing going anymore.

[Reimmi]

Allow me.

The argument being put forth for Plunge's removal is that it reduces the amount of buttons being pressed in DRK's burst window. That's the reason that was given, but as you pointed out, it makes little sense, because us DRK mains only play it for that high APM. It's the only time when the job extends past 1-2-3 gauge spender, so the removal of 2 oGCDs and potential fight optimization is a net loss for the job. I don't know who actually gains from this.

Further more, Shadowstride, as cool as it is thematically for those who are okay with losing the Berserk reference, has the "unintended?" drawback of nerfing Enhanced Unmend, a trait that was already the laughing stock of the game. Now you can't even get theoretical potency gains off increased Plunges. Doesn't even return the entire Shadowstride, it's still five seconds. Meanwhile Raiton, something you actually use, gives you FREE Shukuchis on NIN.

Like, why not have Shadowstride TURN INTO Plunge after using Unmend? Like how SAM/RPR's change when they are forced to disengage? Why am I not allowed to gapclose to friends if I'm not hitting them with my giant sword? If you're going to give me Thunderclap, why not go all the way?

There's an inverse relationship with how much I want to say about DRK vs what was meaningfully added to the job this time around. Three expansions running, and we're still failing to meet our potential.

the main reason its gone and why pld/war should also lose the damage is using your mobility for damage is bad game design.
They should replace the damage ogcds with new ones, however.

[Oizen]

Allow me.

The argument being put forth for Plunge's removal is that it reduces the amount of buttons being pressed in DRK's burst window. That's the reason that was given, but as you pointed out, it makes little sense, because us DRK mains only play it for that high APM. It's the only time when the job extends past 1-2-3 gauge spender, so the removal of 2 oGCDs and potential fight optimization is a net loss for the job. I don't know who actually gains from this.

Further more, Shadowstride, as cool as it is thematically for those who are okay with losing the Berserk reference, has the "unintended?" drawback of nerfing Enhanced Unmend, a trait that was already the laughing stock of the game. Now you can't even get theoretical potency gains off increased Plunges. Doesn't even return the entire Shadowstride, it's still five seconds. Meanwhile Raiton, something you actually use, gives you FREE Shukuchis on NIN.

Like, why not have Shadowstride TURN INTO Plunge after using Unmend? Like how SAM/RPR's change when they are forced to disengage? Why am I not allowed to gapclose to friends if I'm not hitting them with my giant sword? If you're going to give me Thunderclap, why not go all the way?

There's an inverse relationship with how much I want to say about DRK vs what was meaningfully added to the job this time around. Three expansions running, and we're still failing to meet our potential.

I will say that Dark Knights changes were as bare minimum as you could really get. Which is pretty notable in what was basically the most bare minimum job changes as a whole.

I don't really feel like the dev team has passion for this game anymore, they're just going through the motions at this point. And you can see it in their odd decision to nerf DRK's defenses with the MP nerf of all things. They're just out of touch, they change for the sake of change, because exapnsions need change, and then they go develop other games.

[GoatOfWar]

I will say that Dark Knights changes were as bare minimum as you could really get. Which is pretty notable in what was basically the most bare minimum job changes as a whole.

I don't really feel like the dev team has passion for this game anymore, they're just going through the motions at this point. And you can see it in their odd decision to nerf DRK's defenses with the MP nerf of all things. They're just out of touch, they change for the sake of change, because exapnsions need change, and then they go develop other games.

If they cared about job design they wouldn't make everything the exact same.
The Drk nerfs were more of an accidental oversight i'm guessing, stemming from that lack of care.