What we want as healers: A coherent List

[Silver-Strider]

Good, another 'healer fix' theorycrafting thread made by someone who doesn't actually play healer in all content. Please join a Coils MINE static and then re-draft your list.

Cure 1 should upgrade into Solace whenever you have a lily, not into C2, and Freecure should be changed into a single lily pip that unlocks at level 30. This un-traps Freecure while consolidating buttons and keeps WHM viable in 50 MINE where it doesn't have its MP economy and actually needs to use Cure 1 and Freecures.

Physick is used in 50 MINE as a triage heal when non-tanks take avoidable damage but your Lustrates are already budgeted.

SE themselves doesn't build with consideration for low level content, else mechanics like Prey that flat out REQUIRE a shield to resolve haven't been used since SB when they first removed WHM's Stoneskin, however, that mechanic still exists in ARR/HW content, leaving WHM/AST out of luck when it comes to those mechanics due to a lack of available shields to properly resolve those mechanics. So if SE can't be bothered to consider low level content, why should we?

[Iedarus]

Snip

My apologies. I didn't play absolutely every single bit of content in this entire game; I never played synced old content aside from Ramuh/Garuda Extreme. I will leave and take this list that I explicitly stated was based off the ideas of others with me.

Look, I know it feels good to dunk on people because you have a lot of hardcore content under your belt, but I'm on your side, despite being a middling Extreme Andy. I'll add this idea to the list. Just remember that not everyone who doesn't play ultimate is a forum troll; I too want this role to be the best it possibly can be.

[KageTokage]

I really wish people would stop trotting out the "Just play/you don't play harder content" argument.

It does not matter what difficulty you're doing. Your engagement is fundamentally lower then that of DPS/tanks because your rotation consists primarily of only two different buttons and your role actively gets more boring at optimized levels of play because you're hitting those two buttons more often.

You don't need "qualifications" understand that any manner of deviance from that formula whether by giving healers more DPS buttons and/or making them have to use their GCD heals more often will make their gameplay more varied.

[vetch]

SE themselves doesn't build with consideration for low level content, else mechanics like Prey that flat out REQUIRE a shield to resolve haven't been used since SB when they first removed WHM's Stoneskin, however, that mechanic still exists in ARR/HW content, leaving WHM/AST out of luck when it comes to those mechanics due to a lack of available shields to properly resolve those mechanics. So if SE can't be bothered to consider low level content, why should we?

No, Square actually does consider whether old MINE fights are still playable and makes changes to keep them so. A4S was changed after the Endwalker stat squish, specifically due to MINE players' feedback. A8S was just changed a couple patches ago.

There's a mile of difference between 'you can't run double regen for Imdugud' and 'playing WHM in Coils MINE is basically throwing now, because without C1 and Freecures you go OOM and stay there'. Just because they're not willing to abandon particular elements of their skill progression and subrole design for the sake of some ARR fights doesn't mean they're going to be okay with effectually disqualifying a job from a raid series.

My apologies. I didn't play absolutely every single bit of content in this entire game; I never played synced old content aside from Ramuh/Garuda Extreme. I will leave and take this list that I explicitly stated was based off the ideas of others with me.

Look, I know it feels good to dunk on people because you have a lot of hardcore content under your belt, but I'm on your side, despite being a middling Extreme Andy. I'll add this idea to the list. Just remember that not everyone who doesn't play ultimate is a forum troll; I too want this role to be the best it possibly can be.

Your assumption of false humility is ridiculous, given we've already seen that you think so highly of yourself that you believe you can speak for the community.

If you think mild criticism of your list of received opinions is the same as calling you a troll, or that it can be deflected with feigned injury, you're gonna get eaten alive if your wishlist ever sees any serious discussion.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

I'll take your lil list for my fave healer.


AST:
-Benefic I upgrades into Benefic II - Looks good to me
-Return the RNG - Would be very happy with this, I think we could have this with the DT card system choosing from a pool of effects each time. Just make the dps specific cards very similar in terms of dmg bonus but via different methods. In general the cards could do with more diverse and interesting effects to them imo.
-Return Royal Road - I'd love royal road back
-Return Time Dilation - Would love this back, it was a fave thing for me
-Return Redraw - If we keep the current DT cards I don't feel the need for redraw to return, let us take the cards we are dealt and manage them.
-Return Sleeve Draw - If we get the above changes I'd be happy with this staying gone even though I did enjoy it. It was the thing that kept ast from the grave for me in shb but I think with returning card manipulation on DT cards we would be busy enough without this coming back!
-Return Nocturnal sect (Merge the two sect buttons together as a toggleable oGCD for a stance dancing mechanic) - I really don't care if this comes back, noct stance was just a really bad scholar to me and it always irked me they never let it be on a more level field with sch the way diurnal was with whm.

AST was the only healer that justified having two DPS buttons since they were constantly playing the card minigame. I agree, if we get our card interactions back we don't need an in depth dps rotation at all, it would be too much.

[Iedarus]

I'll take your lil list for my fave healer.


AST:
-Benefic I upgrades into Benefic II - Looks good to me
-Return the RNG - Would be very happy with this, I think we could have this with the DT card system choosing from a pool of effects each time. Just make the dps specific cards very similar in terms of dmg bonus but via different methods. In general the cards could do with more diverse and interesting effects to them imo.
-Return Royal Road - I'd love royal road back
-Return Time Dilation - Would love this back, it was a fave thing for me
-Return Redraw - If we keep the current DT cards I don't feel the need for redraw to return, let us take the cards we are dealt and manage them.
-Return Sleeve Draw - If we get the above changes I'd be happy with this staying gone even though I did enjoy it. It was the thing that kept ast from the grave for me in shb but I think with returning card manipulation on DT cards we would be busy enough without this coming back!
-Return Nocturnal sect (Merge the two sect buttons together as a toggleable oGCD for a stance dancing mechanic) - I really don't care if this comes back, noct stance was just a really bad scholar to me and it always irked me they never let it be on a more level field with sch the way diurnal was with whm.

AST was the only healer that justified having two DPS buttons since they were constantly playing the card minigame. I agree, if we get our card interactions back we don't need an in depth dps rotation at all, it would be too much.

Makes sense. I'm hoping SE can bring noct back and give it a niche; the whole shield-regen healer split was a definite failure and they are clearly backtracking on that in DT. If it's viewed more as a spectrum, Noct sect may see use.

[Iedarus]

Snip

Right, I keep forgetting sarcasm is lost over text. Point is that I compiled a list based on the ideas of others and myself. The whole idea of the list is to help the healer community finally come together and voice once and for all what we want since we're split into either more DPS or more healing. As it stands, now, this list is working to encompass a happy medium of a simple yet fulfilling gameplay loop while still being able to focus on healing and make it easier for SE to make healing more demanding, as a result.

The first half of your first line came off as abrasive, like only the diehard savage/ultimate raiders should have a voice when healing should feel fulfilling in all content. The fact that we find ourselves falling tf asleep in Extremes should be code red.

[NobleWinter]

MINE Content in ARR is not that high of a bar to reach. It's level 50 content and Ultimates don't start until 70. Asking you to do content at level 50 where Physick and Cure truly matter is a legitimate request if you're theory crafting how make healers more enjoyable with minor changes since your proposed change would make healing incredibly difficult if not impossible in a lot of level 50 content. Scholar has the unique effect of creating a massive crit shield with Adloquium that basically quadruples that amount of healing the GCD provides (although most of the health received is a temporary barrier). When you are trying to restore actual health Physick is a godsend to refill HP while that massive barrier is in place. Only having Adloquium wouldn't be nearly as effective as the shield portion would be wasted as the next cast if you're forced to rely on GCD healing and that has happened to me often in ARR. I do think Physick could be better but I would definitely not remove it from the kit altogether. Letting Scholar have a "free cure" trait that made Physick potency increase by 100 and restore MP instead of spend it would be wonderful. Maybe make it a chance to be earned each time the fairy casts embrace. That would make ARR much more comfortable to heal at minimum item level.

[Iscah]

Who's "we", and why do they want Holy to be a targeted AOE? Getting up there in the middle of the fight and calculating where to stand is half the satisfaction of the skill, and the upwards burst of light is the other half.

[Chajii]

Good questions!

-By the time you get Adlo, you never want to touch Physick, like ever. You waste a GCD for a paltry heal and the fairy is also extremely powerful in the low levels because her potency is mostly the same throughout the levelling process.

[…]

-Miasma II and Biolysis are on the GCD and Baneful Impaction would be a 60 sec oGCD along with Bane being what helps spread the first two. Just a little something to return SCHs dot gameplay while not making it super overwhelming. In fact, the dots would put less pressure on constantly broiling if we put most of SCH's offensive power into them, so they wouldn't be royally screwed if they ever had to GCD heal.

[…]

-As for energy drain, I think its fine as it is as an optimization tool since those little potency hits do add up. The new mechanic should make it more exciting to use correctly.

- Even by the time you have learnt Adlo, in mainly ARR dungeons especially up to Stone Vigil where you still don't have Lustrate, a sprout tank could easily create a situation that ①they dropped to low HP, ②you cast Adlo on them, ③their HP doesn't look safe enough but Adlo hasn't fully broken, ④this is where you would consider Physick, so please don't replace Physick, you can simply put Physick further away on your hotbar.

- I totally agree and I do miss Miasma II and Bane as a SCH started from SB.

- As for Energy Drain,this is slightly off the track but I would suggest having Sacred Soil changed so that when Soil ends, it gives a "Shadow Flare Ready" buff to let Shadow Flare be accessible, both brings back Shadow Flare, removing the problem in SB that as both dooms can't coexist, some would pick Shadow Flare over Soil and leave the party in danger, and also encourage players to use Sacred Soil instead of spamming an extra Energy Drain during for example openers as usually there will be a raidwide attack at the start.