Dawntrail's mediatour dungeon was already cleared without healers.

[MagiusNecros]

I wish they would look in WoW's direction. WoW has great worldbuilding, sidequests, class gameplay, build diversity, toys, minigames, seasonal events, difficulty progression....

One of WoW's main characters betrayed everyone, died, and went to Hell. Imagine if Y'shtola did that.

To be fair early WoW success coasted off of preestablished lore of Warcraft 3. So a lot of it's big characters came from that but it is true the stories in WoW and the development of it's characters was a strong point and wanted you to know more about the characters and the world you played in.

FFXIV would be better IMO if like WoW it did it's own stuff instead of success coast off of previous FF entries.

XIV's issue is it only really has MSQ and nothing else in terms of quests that are interesting and that matter.

I think it would do the game well if we did have someone like Arthas or Sylvanas Windrunner where you had an ally that turned to evil.

It would be interesting if Y'shtola in her pursuit of knowledge did succeed in figuring out how to travel between reflections but accidentally killed Runar and his Village in the process starting her dark path to power and insanity and she would have to stopped. As an example.

But I don't think FFXIV is that kind of game. Y'shtola is usually the face they use for their marketing and they won't kill off their Waifu.

And Urianger is the guy they use for too many fake betrayals so it's comical at this point.

The most interesting events that happen in XIV ironically is Hildibrand Quests.

[Taliriah]

I wish they would look in WoW's direction. WoW has great worldbuilding, sidequests, class gameplay, build diversity, toys, minigames, seasonal events, difficulty progression....

One of WoW's main characters betrayed everyone, died, and went to Hell. Imagine if Y'shtola did that.

The only good thing wow does better is pvp, the (technical existence of) open world pvp, and stealth. The world building, writing, characterization, voice acting and story telling are so incredibly bad that whenever I tried to give it a chance I ended up angrily skipping every cutscene because the sheer disparity between the budget they obviously spent on those and the god awful result was downright irritating.

FFXIV manages to do more with less when it comes to storytelling because good writing doesn't need "spectacular" cutscenes every 5 minutes

[Edmund_Blackadder]

The only good thing wow does better is pvp, the (technical existence of) open world pvp, and stealth. The world building, writing, characterization, voice acting and story telling are so incredibly bad that whenever I tried to give it a chance I ended up angrily skipping every cutscene because the sheer disparity between the budget they obviously spent on those and the god awful result was downright irritating.

FFXIV manages to do more with less when it comes to storytelling because good writing doesn't need "spectacular" cutscenes every 5 minutes

I don't know, I mean most competitive PVP in WOW is either a mixture of TSG, Turbo Cleave or Harry Potter cleave.

[Taliriah]

I don't know, I mean most competitive PVP in WOW is either a mixture of TSG, Turbo Cleave or Harry Potter cleave.

competitive pvp is always bad, but that's a you problem. do pvp for the fun, not the competition

[Edmund_Blackadder]

competitive pvp is always bad, but that's a you problem. do pvp for the fun, not the competition

Kind of defeats the objective of the game. The whole point of progression in PVP is to compete to unlock achievements and better gear. If you have low MMR and therefore low winrates in WOW you are stuck engaged in PVP with non conquest gear which frankly has low versa - versa as a stat is King in PVP. When you refer to PVP in warcraft are you commenting on the state of Battlegrounds or Arenas? Because this is an important point.

Battlegrounds are dominated by two main types of communities: Russian Pre-mades on comms which ruin the fun for average players queuing using random Battleground finder:

Visual Aid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwe17yftdRo

Or the second type which are HK farming bots which are fully automated and don't do anything...
Visual Aid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxJTUFBvxas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a06U0fREDXM

When it comes to competitive PVP such as Rated Battlegrounds and Arena's, 2's don't matter in WOW, you mainly find guild's and comp's focused on running 3's. 2's in Area are mainly for the lols:

Visual Aid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWM8PUGxHuw&t=29s

3's are dominated by Turbo cleaves so much so that it became a meme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWfII3096ss

And who can forget HarryPotter Cleave?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLGH9XJmABk

[Taliriah]

Kind of defeats the objective of the game. The whole point of progression in PVP is to compete to unlock achievements and better gear.

When I comment about pvp I comment about non rated, non-epic battlegrounds (epic battleground are bad in the same way that ffxiv frontlines are bad: they are zergfests) and world pvp.
I also have nothing but contempt for people who equate "players with cyrillic names" with "russian premades", as well as the belief that you can't win against a premade. (it's usually a self fulfilling prophecy where people just stop trying because they have decided they can't win).

Anyway, I'm not saying wow does pvp very well, I'm only saying that it does it far better than whatever ffxiv pvp is.

[Edmund_Blackadder]

When I comment about pvp I comment about non rated, non-epic battlegrounds (epic battleground are bad in the same way that ffxiv frontlines are bad: they are zergfests) and world pvp.
I also have nothing but contempt for people who equate "players with cyrillic names" with "russian premades", as well as the belief that you can't win against a premade. (it's usually a self fulfilling prophecy where people just stop trying because they have decided they can't win).

Anyway, I'm not saying wow does pvp very well, I'm only saying that it does it far better than whatever ffxiv pvp is.

I also have nothing but contempt for people who equate "players with cyrillic names" with "russian premades"

Except Blizzard themselves have admitted that this is largely a pre-made community from Russia

as well as the belief that you can't win against a premade.

In a random with no comms and people running around like headless chickens in AB? Yes okay, that checks out

(it's usually a self fulfilling prophecy where people just stop trying because they have decided they can't win).

Fair and balanced opinion imo. Agree.

Anyway, I'm not saying wow does pvp very well, I'm only saying that it does it far better than whatever ffxiv pvp is.

Fair enough.

[Valence]

I'm only saying that it does it far better than whatever ffxiv pvp is.

Does it though?

[KageTokage]

On a more on-topic subject, I cannot help but harbor severe doubts about the DT "expert" dungeons being noticeably harder as per word of god when the ones we were initially presented in ShB/EW ended up being considerably easier then the final dungeon.

I'd at absolute minimum want them to train people in proper cooldown usage by making the damage stressful enough to warrant it.

Does it though?

Yes.

XIV's PvP is fundamentally bad because of the slow server ticks making the gameplay feel extremely unresponsive when you need to be able to react quickly to things like CC and burst.

It's like trying to play a fighting game in constant lag that keeps eating your inputs.

Both games have their balance issues, but XIV is kind of a joke when the devs admitted using win ratios as the primary metric of determining which jobs need to be buffed or nerfed...which led to some jobs that were widely considered top tier getting buffed further because bandwagoners who suck at PvP in general were dragging down their win ratios, while underperformers got nerfed because it was largely the better players devoted to playing the jobs using them. It took over a year for WHM to get put into a semi-reasonable position relative to the other healers, and SCH ended up getting nerfed before it did despite being one of the least popular jobs in terms of actual usage rates.

[Ramiee]

skipping to the end of this chat and seeing PvP conversation was a jump