Can we have the hellhound gearset available to buy with Trophy Crystals?

[Doozer]

Man's out here crying about the mere concept of special rewards no longer being special when that's already happened. A few rewards that were previously for contests only ended up in the Fanfest moogle tomestone event for literally 1 tomestone and you don't hear people crying about that. I was one of the previous contest winners, as well. Twice. Not sweepstakes. It doesn't rob me of my accomplishment just because other people got it for basically free if they wanted it.

[RyanCousland]

Man's out here crying about the mere concept of special rewards no longer being special when that's already happened. A few rewards that were previously for contests only ended up in the Fanfest moogle tomestone event for literally 1 tomestone and you don't hear people crying about that. I was one of the previous contest winners, as well. Twice. Not sweepstakes. It doesn't rob me of my accomplishment just because other people got it for basically free if they wanted it.

false equivalency

[Doozer]

false equivalency

Nope. Thanks for playing though.

[Boa-Noah]

What is so difficult to understand about this?!

Well everything honestly? It seems like no one wants to play ranked PVP so your solution is forcing people to play ranked PVP, doesn't really make much sense to me, like I know if you're into ranked PVP the utter lack of rewards must be pretty crushing but that just sounds like a general problem with a lack of content. Adding old Feast rewards to some system that prioritizes ranked would just be a band-aid and would lead to more people who hate PVP hating ranked PVP even more because they were forced into it, further it would just give the devs an excuse to NOT add more rewards to ranked if anything. Do you really want a solid 8 or so seasons of 'play ranked to get a recolor of a past Feast reward' that would basically give you nothing to do once you got the armor anyways?

Adding them to the current system would give people more incentive to delve into PVP since some of those old sets look AMAZING on basically every single class which might even get people into playing ranked, but in general there's no fix to the problem.

People HATED Feast to the point they killed it entirely, do you really think 'this new system gives you old rewards BUT you have to do ranked to get it' will rejuvenate the PVP scene?

Sorry but I hate ranked, I hate PVP in general so I haven't even bothered getting the current armor rewards (not to mention they clash with my glam style), but even I can tell no one wants to do ranked if no one is doing ranked.

[Boa-Noah]

the difference is that ultimate isnt a grindfest that youre proposing and to make ranked rewards into a grinfest be it through battlepass or regular crystals devalues and deters people from engaging in a mode that is arguably not comparable to the other pvp modes

I'm sorry but you know this is Feast rewards we're talking about, right? Feast was NOTHING but a grindfest, people legitimately had to basically stop playing anything but PVP if they wanted to get into those top 100 spots and a lot of people absolutely hated it, I don't understand why you'd even try and argue that the current battlepass of 'do a couple PVP daily for like 3 weeks and you're done' is somehow worse than what Feast used to be and how a new system to grind points specifically relating to your tier and ranked content would somehow be better.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I like that idea of bringing back pvp rewards but only if they are brought back with the same(or similar) ranked acquisition they had before.

They didn't have a ranked acquisition. They literally only went to 100 people per datacenter.

[Boa-Noah]

They didn't have a ranked acquisition. They literally only went to 100 people per datacenter.

That's literally a ranked acquisition though...

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Well everything honestly? It seems like no one wants to play ranked PVP so your solution is forcing people to play ranked PVP, doesn't really make much sense to me, like I know if you're into ranked PVP the utter lack of rewards must be pretty crushing but that just sounds like a general problem with a lack of content. Adding old Feast rewards to some system that prioritizes ranked would just be a band-aid and would lead to more people who hate PVP hating ranked PVP even more because they were forced into it, further it would just give the devs an excuse to NOT add more rewards to ranked if anything. Do you really want a solid 8 or so seasons of 'play ranked to get a recolor of a past Feast reward' that would basically give you nothing to do once you got the armor anyways?

Noone wants to play Ranked PvP because it has additional restrictions over Casual CC and virtually no benefit or reward to it. Furthermore, because there is hardly any reason to play it, it plays into an endless spiral of less people are queueing because queue times are long and queue times are longer because less people are queueing.

I am on not one, not two, but on six discords (assuming PvPaissa still cares) that has been community driven and trying hard to encourage people to queue. The problem isn't that people dislike the mode, in fact quite the opposite, we have various members in EU who got to try it and actually like it. The problem is that we are physically unable to play it due to queue problems caused by the lack of incentive.

Giving Ranked CC incentive is not a band-aid, it's the stitches on a gaping wound.

Also, as much as I understand your logic to add them to the existing system, you do not seem to understand that the purpose of the current system was to drive general player activity in PvP, not Ranked. Ranked having playing restrictions (for good reason) based on skill ranges means it is harder to form matches. Crystallince Conflict (Casual Mode) does not have any issues forming matches and is in fact thriving, indicating that the mode is very much playable and to different people's opinions also enjoyable.

Also also, I love how you twist my words with how I want old rewards to be returned. I am not asking for recolours or undyeables, I am talking about the genuine articles you can see being worn, just with a different item quality for example. Replicas, basically. No strings attached.

I am also not asking it to be obtained in 8 seasons or so, I have been suggesting a proper ranked currency system for a long time now. Think Wolfmarks, but only for wins, draws and end of season bonus, any skill tier. Not too much that you get everything in like 10 matches, not too little that it becomes a 500+ match grindfest for one item. And I am not asking for one armour at a time like mine to be available, I am talking about the whole stock. Maybe add additional augmentation to them to make them glow even for ranked currency (both original and replica).

To add to this, have new Top 100 stuff come in but eventually cycle into the ranked shop after like two seasons so people who missed Top 100 can still obtain it.

Adding them to the current system would give people more incentive to delve into PVP since some of those old sets look AMAZING on basically every single class which might even get people into playing ranked, but in general there's no fix to the problem.

People HATED Feast to the point they killed it entirely, do you really think 'this new system gives you old rewards BUT you have to do ranked to get it' will rejuvenate the PVP scene?

Except the current system is ALREADY encouraging tons of players to try PvP. The only issue for casuals going on is people like me wanting to play Ranked, but can't so they enter Casual and probably give some players an unnecessarily hard time when I should be playing ranked... but I can't. Physically.

Point is, the current system is already working plenty and the most it needs is for Battlepass items to eventually return to the Trophy Crystal Shop and, kindly speaking, less ugly armour recolours (Labyrinth of the Ancients tank armour in dark bronze is really low). It really does not need the old Feast stuff to make it thrive when it already thrives. Ranked needs it infinitely more.

And people did not hate Feast. Feast was a byproduct of many issues piled up. Forced roles slowing queues down, healer-centric survival play, melee-centric kill play, healer anxiety, DPS queue overloaded, no visibility if your rank range misses something. Feast when actually played was enjoyable, but was not sustainable with the forced role queue. And just like Rival Wings, Feast Training had no Daily Challenge, meaning no actual incentive for even the people who wanted to dip their toes in to even get a match outside of Garo final weeks.

We didn't kill Feast. Feast cannibalized itself, even though we liked it.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Sorry but I hate ranked, I hate PVP in general so I haven't even bothered getting the current armor rewards (not to mention they clash with my glam style), but even I can tell no one wants to do ranked if no one is doing ranked.

I'm putting this in a separate post because this is irritating me - explain to me why a player group you are part of, who vocally hates PvP, Ranked and everything it stands for are supposed to be the people Yoshi P or any game developer working on PvP in any game should listen to over those who have the knowledge and macro-level understanding of the inner workings of PvP for years, on matters that involve making PvP prosper on all facets and not just the one's they personally like?

You can't tell anything because you are stuck in a fallacy loop. You think "noone is doing it because noone wants to do it". The actual answer is "noone is doing it because there is no reason to do it over an exact copy of what they want to do, with no additional benefits and only restrictions".

I'm going to line out our stances the way I understand it:

• You hate PvP, you hate Ranked, you think they should just rip the old feast rewards out and plaster them onto casual-everything, even though you don't even like it.
• I like PvP, I like Ranked, I want the rewards also to appear again for people to obtain, but I want ALL modes to prosper, not just casual modes. I (and Ryan) are even offering various methods they could introduce better systems because we care for ALL OF PVP, not just the modes we personally prefer.

I am done with having my words and suggestions to improve PvP as a whole twisted by people who hate PvP in the first place and have zero understanding of how incentives and lack-thereof work.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I'm sorry but you know this is Feast rewards we're talking about, right? Feast was NOTHING but a grindfest, people legitimately had to basically stop playing anything but PVP if they wanted to get into those top 100 spots and a lot of people absolutely hated it, I don't understand why you'd even try and argue that the current battlepass of 'do a couple PVP daily for like 3 weeks and you're done' is somehow worse than what Feast used to be and how a new system to grind points specifically relating to your tier and ranked content would somehow be better.

Feast was a "grindfest" to people who lacked the performative skills to be Top 100 and tried to get into it. The Top 100 system in a vacuum is not bad, but it was flawed due to no backflow and no other option within Ranked to eventually obtain it.

For those that knew how to MMO pvp it was a matter of being better than the opponent and improving what they could do. I for one did neither lose sleep, lose raid groups or lost time to eat when I went for Top 100. I was there, I was literally in the middle of it.

Ryan is arguing against the battlepass/trophy crystal suggestion because it is a system meant to incentivize general PvP participation, completely disregarding the state of Ranked. This isn't about which grindfest is worse or better, it is the principle of desincentivizing Ranked as a whole that is a thorn here.

A grind of currency, if done in Ranked, to encourage Ranked participation at ANY skill level, is welcome and benefits those who need it most - which is PvP Rankers who want a more serious competition and need people to queue. Disregarding the desires of this player group entirely while wanting virtually everything outside of ranked is, forgive my wording, selfish and egoistic.