Moon Miqo'te Face 4 feedback

[Rueby]

Sure I'll give it a try. Hopefully this works?

You can see the nostrils are lower, the nose is overall straighter, the tip is flatter and the bridge is more shallow, closer in toward the eyes. They seem like minor changes but stuff like this adds up when everything on the face gets this much change.

+ Snip

Oh I can see it clearly now, I didn't really put them side by side but it does add up that the shape felt different to me. I'm not a huge fan of the nostrils being downwards either. I liked that nose alot because of how it doesn't fit the conventional 'it's pretty' standard, it looks flawed and I love that alot about it. It's why I also chose face 4, I was drawn to how unique it looked/felt.

I honestly think you've done a great job...I always thought these flaws made that face really beautiful in my eyes. I rarely see this face around too, it's nice to see it's getting some love here. Something I've noticed while waltzing around but I'm not so sure, was someone mentioning homogenization being a thing. Aura Thread #2 It's probably all over the AuRa thread as well.

I feel like we're losing alot of the unique identity of individual faces and moving towards a generially more 'pretty girl' look. I thought I saw in the live letter them wanting to standardize the polygon count for everyone (faces) or something? I've been out of loop from EW so I haven't been checking the LLs as frequently.

[Varilyon]

"Better" isn't what matters. Better is subjective. What is important to us is preserving how our characters look and feel.

This is why we need more options. The changes are different but I kinda like them. I use my settings for 12 years and never changed anything even though the free Fantasias and Auto-Fantasias. I'd hope they let us decide.

[Turtledeluxe]

I feel really conflicted about these long, detailed posts breaking down features because yes there are differences, but to me your character is not at all "entirely different". I feel like that's a little exagerrated. Also it isn't a like for like photo.

[Gokki]

I feel really conflicted about these long, detailed posts breaking down features because yes there are differences, but to me your character is not at all "entirely different". I feel like that's a little exagerrated. Also it isn't a like for like photo.

You're right. These are very minor changes. But they're instantly noticeble to anyone who played their character for long enough. Like i said before: 99% is amazing and wonderful, but to some few people that bothered enough to post here on the forums it matters, there's an emotional connection to this. You might not care about it because it's not important to you, and that's fine, most people are like that. But to us these minor changes effectively make our characters a different character. "This isn't my character" is the feeling we get.

We're providing feedback and opinions on a new positive change to the game. These "complaints" are in hopes that the devs make these tiny adjustments to keep our characters they way they were when it comes to facial structures and surface expression such as lips or eyelines become darker. The same feedback is being tossed around for most characters (au ra, elezen, etc...).

[ArsayNun]

This is a reiteration of comments I made on another thread, but I wanted to join in on the face 4 miqo'te solidarity. It's really heartening to see that others were drawn to the face type for similar reasons. It was full of unique charm, with a "boyish", youthful energy that struck the perfect balance between sharp cat-like features and cute, rounder structure points around the face. While I absolutely appreciate all the hard work and effort put in to this graphical update- The diffuse texture looks amazing, crisp facial stripes and clean edges on the hair!- I would be lying if I said I wasn't taken aback the first time l loaded into benchmark.



To be fair, she doesn't look that different, but I struggle to make peace with the changes made to the lips and eye even after the initial shock has gone away.
First: I hope they reduce the blending of the facial pattern just a tad. Everything feels less pigmented now and I much preferred the bold look. Also weird that the scar became much wider but ill get used to it.

I, like many others in this thread, was endeared to the little gap between the lips. Despite it being a small detail, it added so much character to her. Especially in cutscenes where she keeps a straight face until directed otherwise. It looked like she was always moments away from flashing a smile or speaking up. I'll be sad to see it go.


There's a whole thread about the fangs, but to re-iterate this but: Keepers have fangs. These are not fangs.Please increase the length and sharpness. I personally would tweak the points towards the incisors so they are more likely to peek out from under the lips in various expressions.


The lashes... I get trying to get them looking thicker and give that "cat eye" lash look but I feel like it was applied without thought of how significantly it changes the shape. It brings the entire eye corner down, taking away the initial angular appeal of that eye shape.


I'm sure a few out there do appreciate the added lashes, and I don't want to take that away from them. So, flattening out the inner curve of the lash, where it attached to the lid, and allowing more of the top waterline to be visible; along with cutting the end a little shorter so it doesn't overlap with the bottom lash line would create a higher corner to the eye. Bringing the lash line further down towards the tear duct will add a bit more weight and make it look balanced, angular, and cat-like!

This effect also occurs on F4 E6 seekers, but to a lesser degree? At a glance I think it's because the lash shape is already sharply cut.

(She is suffering from those mouth puckers though... too many vertices localized around the mouth maybe? Ah, my poor retainer :') )

[Turtledeluxe]

You're right. These are very minor changes. But they're instantly noticeble to anyone who played their character for long enough. Like i said before: 99% is amazing and wonderful, but to some few people that bothered enough to post here on the forums it matters, there's an emotional connection to this. You might not care about it because it's not important to you, and that's fine, most people are like that. But to us these minor changes effectively make our characters a different character. "This isn't my character" is the feeling we get.

We're providing feedback and opinions on a new positive change to the game. These "complaints" are in hopes that the devs make these tiny adjustments to keep our characters they way they were when it comes to facial structures and surface expression such as lips or eyelines become darker. The same feedback is being tossed around for most characters (au ra, elezen, etc...).

It's not that I don't care, I just don't think the feedback "my character is entirely different" is effective. Yet I see it posted everywhere. It's moreso that shapes, proportions, etc are adjusted on particular features. Some things about the new desings are better and not worth undoing. People can express themselves however they want, but i just think feature oriented feedback that's specific is more helpful.

For example "this change to the lips gives the character this expression and it looks odd" is just more effective feedback for a dev than "you ruined my character", even if you do actually feel that way.

[Rueby]

I feel really conflicted about these long, detailed posts breaking down features because yes there are differences, but to me your character is not at all "entirely different". I feel like that's a little exagerrated. Also it isn't a like for like photo.

Thank you for bumping the thread but please keep the argument bait out of a feedback thread. If you have no feedback to provide, then it's best you stop trying to devolve the thread into 'but guys it looks the same to me' because you'll never reach the 'yeah man you're right it looks the same!'.

I've seen your previous posts, you're skeptical about player feedback and don't trust them- I'm not sure what would make you happy? Do you want people to stay quiet? I'll give you something I posted in another thread and I'll point you towards the JP side of the forums Example. Many of us don't want the expansion to hit us where a change is forced on us to how our character's look.

As an amateur artist this is what constructive feedback is like. Even better if people demonstrate their feedback by providing paint overs if they're able. This isn't something to feel conflicted over or discourage. I hope this provided you with some insight and perhaps might encourage you to provide your own feedback. People are aware this isn't the final product- this is why people are scrambling to provide feedback and not a fault of our own. The expansion is soon and I personally think a beta of the CC should've been released early to address some of the concerns.

[Rueby]

Snip

You haven't spent as much time as I did with my character- or those with similar presets, so of course to you it looks the same-ish. I look at lala pictures and at a glance I can't really tell the difference straight away but my eyes can't help but pick on differences. Concerns is also raised about homogenization and characters using 'unique' features and everything devolving into a 'pretty girl' look.

It's really interesting to see people trying to invalidate feedback by using statements 'it's the same picture' and 'it's just the light'. We all are paying customers here and this is a product we're getting. I don't think things must be black or white. Why should you be happy at my expense? Why should I be happy at your expense? If we focus on the either or we'd never reach a solution.

I don't think the devs are 'decieving' us intentionally, it's hard to discern 'feeling' or 'vibe' from something you haven't spent much time with. I'd like to think the people who worked on our characters may have a bias, as someone who is an amateur artist- sometimes a personal bias might carry through- perhaps out of passion. I made it beautiful, but perhaps in my attempt to make something beautiful in my eyes, it lost some charm to you, I'd love your feedback as I'm providing you with a product. This is an oversimplification of course.

Stop trying to silence feedback because it's negative. At worst DT might get delayed, but what spurred so many to take to the forums is not just 'oh it's in your head' and 'you're being dramatic'. A good artist should see negative feedback as an opportunity to improve- I think this concept applies to everything. I think the input/feedback from people who spent alot of time with their character should be invaluable and encouraged.

I doubt the Graphical Overhaul will be optional or even scrapped- that's a compromise some of us will have to make but I think many will appreciate consistency in the shape of lips/noses/eyes etc. If not, then we should be pushing for more optional presets and in this point I doubt it'd be too much to ask.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps you think the flaws I like ugly and should be removed, and perhaps I think your standard beautiful look to be generic- none of us are wrong. I think we can coexist with more preset options to express ourselves. If you like a certain feature change, give constructive feedback and who knows, we might get the options that might make us all happy (hopefully) so that we may continue to enjoy this game we love.

[Cheapshot]

It's not that I don't care, I just don't think the feedback "my character is entirely different" is effective. Yet I see it posted everywhere. It's moreso that shapes, proportions, etc are adjusted on particular features. Some things about the new desings are better and not worth undoing. People can express themselves however they want, but i just think feature oriented feedback that's specific is more helpful.

For example "this change to the lips gives the character this expression and it looks odd" is just more effective feedback for a dev than "you ruined my character", even if you do actually feel that way.

To be honest I don’t think you’re engaging with us in good faith. I’ve seen you in a lot of threads making similar generic unspecific statements about what other people are saying and doing. I assure you, you are misrepresenting how people are discussing things in this one. Everyone in here has been very reasonable. Everyone has been very transparent and frank and honest with their thoughts and feelings. Everyone has been very detailed with their concerns and illustrating them. It makes me think you haven’t really read through this thread and are just going into every related thread to drop blanket statements, looking to stir things up. Don’t level fisher in this thread please. We don’t want the bait.

[HeyMcFly]

feature oriented feedback that's specific is more helpful.

For example "this change to the lips gives the character this expression and it looks odd" is just more effective feedback for a dev than "you ruined my character", even if you do actually feel that way.

This is a very true statement; Like the super thick eyelashes in the benchmark remove pretty much the once noticeable different eye shapes. Or the lack of natural contouring to the noses, they all really look just about the same now- there are some slight differences to the septum area, but that's about it in the benchmark-- and the lip gap gave way for a cute, unique expression imo. Changing those makes having different options redundant in the 1st place.