New healers skills

[Supersnow845]

Are we forgetting critlio...? SCH's identity lies solely in getting it and is one of the reasons why it can ignore entire raid mechanics, SGE can't do that...
Though the "pure" healers are the ones suffering the most tbh, especially when when healing is concerned. It's bad SGE can out heal, out shield, and out damage the whm where and when it matters...this without Kardia in a group setting.
Now this doesn't really matter too much since healing is binary mostly, but it does matter in regard to what whm brings to the table especially when damage is concerned. I can't say it brings really anything, at least AST has buffs (which I am not sure will stick around too much longer outside maybe becoming 1 button).

Personally would rather them NOT continue into the whole healing concept and instead reduce that bloat then start adding uniqueness back to the healers in forms of other skills. OTL
Healing has become too easy and having TOO many options has lessened the role greatly, especially for people picking up the role because they don't really get to "learn" how to be a proper healer.

In the context of their comment it’s fair to exclude critlo because they specifically were referring to percentage mitigation

Though to be fair that actually makes SCH even more cracked because it has more mitigation AND it has spreadlo

[Valence]

There's a difference between stealing a similar ability and being a near 1 to 1 copy like scholar and sage are...

I was only making fun of the idea that it was a time based spell.

[Katish]

In the context of their comment it’s fair to exclude critlo because they specifically were referring to percentage mitigation

Though to be fair that actually makes SCH even more cracked because it has more mitigation AND it has spreadlo

Ah did they mean the amount of tools? That should not be a problem given as I brought up healing is binary. It's either you did or you didn't, if you are timing your skills this should never be a problem even if they reduced mitigation tools to just 3 lel.
If they meant collective mitigation, it matters not too much given mitigation % becomes a % of a %'s aftermath in reduction. Would rather higher percent initial mits than more mit skills. Again either you applied it or didn't.

[Sylvain]

Kerachole and Sacred Soil are functionally identical. 10% party wide damage reduction for 15s on a 30 second CD + some healing overtime. One is placed the other is an AoE buff.

Holos and Expedience both reduce damage taken by the party by 10% for 20s on a 2minute CD- One applies a shield the other gives a speed boost.

Fey Illumination reduces party wide magic damage taken by 5% for 20s on a 2minute CD.


Taurochole reduces damage taken by a single target by 10% for 15s.

Those are the skills that have an effect that "mitigates" or reduces damage. SGE and SCH are tied with the number of skills that provide such effect. Are people counting other things as mitigation? Shields and the like?

Kerachole is most scenario is stricly better since the range increase.
Before, if the group was spread, while Kerachole was more convenient most of the time, there were scenario where you had 2 groups split appart and doing a Kerachole right before the raid wide could be tight. SS felt better in those rare case because it could be placed ahead of time for both group to get the mitigue by merging together. With the range enhancement we got, even tho SS is now as big as most boss hitbox, you still need players within that hitbox... whereas you don't with Kerachole, and now that it cna reach players at the other side of the map, then Kerachole just became strickly better.
Currently progging TOP, there's virtually 0 situation where SS is better than Kerachole.

In practice, Kerachole can be used in more situation and you always get the full benefit of the healing whereas SS has more restriction without any upside for about 99% of situations.

The rest are basically the same tools just spread differently.

What truly saved SCH is deployement tactic and Seraph being better than Panhaima in most situation. (There are very few cases where you get 5 hits within 15s in order to reach the 1000 potency shield, but double raid burster are much more common, but it's obviously at the cost of more management.)

The DPS tradeoff of Energy Drain is big and as much as some people vehemently defend it, it is a problem. Sage can go all out on healing without a care in the world about loosing damage when it comes to their Addersgale usage. SCH doesn't. While they are different things, Sage having 5 instant gcd to DPS while moving is also stricly superior to RuinII in most situation....

The issue stays that SCH, as Mortex said, is clunky. Beside that massive critlodeploy, whatever SCH can do, Sage can do the same but more easily.
Kerachole >> SS in most situation
Phlegma / Toxikon >> RuinII
Instant Shield >> Non Instant Shield
Prognosis + Pepsi >> No prognosis + Emergency Tactic (assuming u ever need to do it)
Rhizomata >> Dissipation (when it comes to needed the ressourge for ogcd healing only)
Fairy Laser vs Soteria+Haima, again, clunky. Can't laser + other ogcd, can't laser while seraph, can't laser while dissipation, can't laser on pull (P12S part 2 hello)

Some things do feel different and are a matter of preferences such as
Excogitation vs Taurochole, I find Excog MUCH better, I feel like Taurochole should be a HoT+Mit

It’s a bit unfair to count taurochole and fey illumination as equivalents since one is an AOE


It would be better to count taurochole as equal to protraction (because 10% HP up is just 10% mitigation by proxy) leaving fey illumination as having no equivalent

Fey Illum is part of the mix which is spread differently on the sage. Fey illum is extra heal + small mitigation (aoe)
The extra heal is on Physis, the extra mit could be attributed to the shield on Holos.

I consider Taurochole to be the equivalent of Excog, both have 45s cd, ressource requirement, single target heal just differently. Excog autoheal and has more potency, Tauro has a small mit
I personally prefer Excog.

In the context of their comment it’s fair to exclude critlo because they specifically were referring to percentage mitigation

Though to be fair that actually makes SCH even more cracked because it has more mitigation AND it has spreadlo

Tbf, if you remove critlo from SCH, it looses a lot of what makes it good. This is precisely because my partner can do a critdeploy that she plays it, remove that and it's just a clunky sage.

[Supersnow845]

^i don’t mean actually remove critlo i mean the person I replied to compared “percentage mitigation” and tried to equate illumination to taurochole, if you ignore critlo and focus on percentage mitigation then SCH beats SGE because of illumination

Holos shield is equivalent to critlo (it’s exactly why holos was buffed) so essentially SCH trades requiring more inputs in order to get slightly more out of the class, I don’t really find it clunky, SGE just doesn’t have any optimisation at all

Addersgall needs to go not aetherflow, aetherflow has existed longer than even AST has been alive, do something interesting with kardia, not make “aetherflow but no trade off” then use that as justification to remove aetherflow. It’s not like addersgall is thematic to SGE anyway

[Aravell]

I have to ask, why do so many people who enjoy SGE always shout for SCH to be reworked?

So you hate SCH and think it's clunky? Ok, play SGE, you have SGE. How about you let those of us who enjoy SCH play the job we enjoy instead of shouting for it to be molded into something more to your taste?

[Mortex]

I have to ask, why do so many people who enjoy SGE always shout for SCH to be reworked?

So you hate SCH and think it's clunky? Ok, play SGE, you have SGE. How about you let those of us who enjoy SCH play the job we enjoy instead of shouting for it to be molded into something more to your taste?

I think back in stormblood sch was actual not that clunky and mega fun. You had the fairy do the skill when you pressed the button and not wait 100 years. The entire job becoming clunky was in the wake of pet removal in shadowbringer and the ghosting was even worse in shadowbringer. Also dmg design wise it was also way more fun with bane spreading dots in aoe and miasma 2.

I want sch to be interesting again and not clunky. I don’t wanna play only sgn. I was a healer main and having jobs that are clunky only ( maybe gnb cause it drifts in some cases like hell) in the healer role sucks major.

[fulminating]

Soil gives you 6 ticks, kera 5. I don't think you can say the movement makes it outright better.

"The DPS tradeoff of Energy Drain is big and as much as some people vehemently defend it, it is a problem. Sage can go all out on healing without a care in the world about loosing damage when it comes to their Addersgale usage. SCH doesn't. While they are different things, Sage having 5 instant gcd to DPS while moving is also stricly superior to RuinII in most situation"

Why are you bandying some of the worst aspects of sage's design around as if they're a good thing?

[Sylvain]

Addersgall needs to go not aetherflow, aetherflow has existed longer than even AST has been alive, do something interesting with kardia, not make “aetherflow but no trade off” then use that as justification to remove aetherflow. It’s not like addersgall is thematic to SGE anyway

Well because AF is older it must remains isn't really solid.

I was very disapointed when I realised that AG was a copy of SCH AF system, and how little we use Eukrasia considering how specific to sage it is.
But now that it's done, if I were to choose, I'd rather have them remove AF and make a brand new system based off the fairy.

I like the idea of a tradeoff (provided the return is meaningful), I personally would like the fairy swap to come back, basically as an OGCD of 1min CD. Depending on which fairy is out, your fairy actions are different. Like, you'd have about 5-6 fairy actions, but depending on which fairy is out, they don't do the same thing. Some would require fairy gauge. So you'd need to asses which fairy is best for every part of the fight, each time locking some of your tools. A bit like Seraph currently is (altough she's strictly better but that's beyond the point). And not just "this is the HoT fairy... this is the mitigation/shield fairy", really, an evenly spread distribution of single target mitigation and heal accross both fairy. Each minute forcing you to decide "which fairy would be best for the next minute, which skill do I want for the next minute?".

This would basically give SCH the most healing tools while being the most restrictive. Like, For that specific mech, having Eos 2min would be best, but that would lock X and Y skill which are on Selene for the next mechanic.

I might be the only one wishing something like this, but that's beyond the point. This would feel much more in line with what the SCH is, a tactician, (with a fairy pet). You'd need to be mindfull about your choice.

So many cool things, unique cooldown and interaction could be done with this.

[Supersnow845]

I guess that’s where we disagree, SGE has two more systems that are infinitely more interesting than not aetherflow, I’d rather addersgall go and leave SCH the system they have always had, that doesn’t preclude them making the fairy better again but addersgall adds literally nothing to SGE, if anything it dilutes its already shaky identity

Make SGE about kardia and eukrasia, not free healing for zero reason

I agree the fairy needs to do more on SCH’s side but I also don’t want SCH to be a fairy mage