[5.55 Bozja spoilers] Additional post-ending Bozja story hidden in the field record

[KizuyaKatogami]

smip

EE goes into detail about when the Garleans were pushed out and why. The other races didn’t want them around because not being able to manipulate aether was a no-no. They specifically pushed them out to infertile lands in hope they would die off. It was only because of them finding Ceruleum that they were able to continue living(along with the eventual help from Emet Selch). I’d argue conquest has been good, but that’s purely a matter of opinion. In the garleans case it was good. They were able to supply for their people. As for your Limsa point ah yes, 3 expansions later all of a sudden Limsa sees their conquests against the kobolds as wrong and then a patch later they’re used to initiate the eorzean alliance. Just feels like a plot device to keep the story moving but i digress. In the end, it was good for the Limsans to conquer. Limsans slaughtering them though isn’t necessarily 1:1 to what Garlemald did to other countries however. Considering we see Gabranth with his views we know there were very good people amongst them. Another case toward the kobolds though is that they’re beast tribes. All the city states ftmp treat them as lesser. Imo it’s no different than how the Unsundered treat the sundered. It’s not necessarily wrong in game. It’s just the way it is.

[YianKutku]

EE goes into detail about when the Garleans were pushed out and why. The other races didn’t want them around because not being able to manipulate aether was a no-no. They specifically pushed them out to infertile lands in hope they would die off.

I have EE1 in front of me now, and I don't see anything that says this. It's not on page 177, which has the history of Garlemald, and it's not on page 48, where the timeline just says the Garleans were pushed out of the south and into the north.

Therefore, I'd like some concrete sources for your claims.

As for your Limsa point ah yes, 3 expansions later all of a sudden Limsa sees their conquests against the kobolds as wrong and then a patch later they’re used to initiate the eorzean alliance. Just feels like a plot device to keep the story moving but i digress.

It was already brought up in 2.2. Y'shtola snarked at Merlwyb about it, and Merlwyb acknowledged that Limsa Lominsa's treatment of the Kobolds and Sahagin was wrong, but the threat of Leviathan was still very real.

It was mainly in 5.4 that Merlwyb actually got around to doing something about it, and given the time bubble of everything happening in one year, that is still a quick turnaround time.

[Fenral]

I'd like a cool setting with interesting factions, races and nations that do not necessarily agree with one another and may very well be opposed to one another from time to time.

I think the obsession with 'problematic' and 'uncomfortable' content has led to a lot of the depth and nuance to be sucked out of the fantasy genre across the board.

Traditional fantasy may not have what you're looking for lately, but if you expand that umbrella to include speculative fiction across the board...

Both are about as old as I am, but Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Babylon 5 are both probably worth your time. For newer series (if "anime" isn't an immediate turnoff), Star Blazers 2199 has the most sympathetic and nuanced fascists you'll ever meet, and I've also heard a great many good things about Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I have EE1 in front of me now, and I don't see anything that says this. It's not on page 177, which has the history of Garlemald, and it's not on page 48, where the timeline just says the Garleans were pushed out of the south and into the north.

Therefore, I'd like some concrete sources for your claims.



It was already brought up in 2.2. Y'shtola snarked at Merlwyb about it, and Merlwyb acknowledged that Limsa Lominsa's treatment of the Kobolds and Sahagin was wrong, but the threat of Leviathan was still very real.

It was mainly in 5.4 that Merlwyb actually got around to doing something about it, and given the time bubble of everything happening in one year, that is still a quick turnaround time.

The being pushed out is in EE is what i meant. Them being pushed out because the oppressors wanted them to die off was addressed i believe in an interview with yoshi a few years back iirc. It was along with them detailing the whole thing of dont take everything at face value. Tried to find that interview but sorting through the jp ones and having to translate them isnt fun As for the kobolds thing, again, look how long it took for them to acknowledge that they were wrong.... long after they had alrwady built their city and had been oppressing them, its easy to say that when youre the one in control and not the other way around. It's just like with the beast tribes we see in 5.5 mirroring the situation on the First. They only ally with them when theyre facing an apocalypse. Afterwards they'll most likely return to being hated and shunned. Uldah still allows slavery as it is. All these places are built on lesser "evils." In the end though again, main point of this was that Garlemald isnt "evil" due to conquest. It might be hard for people to comprehend that because they arent in that situation and only see things outside of that perspective. A lot of us wouldnt be here typing away on forums were it not for conquest. Just like garlemald might not even be a thing were it not for conquest. Or Limsa for that matter. Without Limsa who knows where'd we be

Edit:The EE text i was talking about.

[WhiteArchmage]

It was already brought up in 2.2. Y'shtola snarked at Merlwyb about it, and Merlwyb acknowledged that Limsa Lominsa's treatment of the Kobolds and Sahagin was wrong, but the threat of Leviathan was still very real.

Just to add, it's even in 2.0 when Y'Shtola muses that Limsa's problems with Titan are entirely their own doing and if it were up to her she'd leave them to the consequences of their actions. But they still can't let a Primal roam free so the Scions (or, rather, the WoL) have to take care of it. The game has never shied away from showing that the city states' treatment of the beast tribes was wrong. Even if it took a while for them to actually do something about it.

[RyuDragnier]

It was mainly in 5.4 that Merlwyb actually got around to doing something about it, and given the time bubble of everything happening in one year, that is still a quick turnaround time.

Which as we all know of that time bubble, is false. It's been around 4 years since then most likely.

[BlitzAceRush]

Which as we all know of that time bubble, is false. It's been around 4 years since then most likely.

Which is still a pretty fast turn around for any ruling body to go from admission of wrongdoing to attempting to make amends to the point of rendering an offer of equal standing. Especially given it's not like Limsa was trying to fix it for those whole 4'ish years. They've had to fight two seperate armed conflicts and deal with a whole host of other issues, then when there was finally time Merlwyb pretty much just walked down there and dealt with the matter herself in a day. Granted she was obviously working on the plan a fair bit longer than that, given she had a proposal and plans for how it was all going to work already drafted.

[Ronald_Bloodwings]

While a bit off topic, I had wanted to go back and watch all the different scenes throughout the Save the Queen story so I could analyze and give a full and cohesive view of the story now that it is finished only to find out that over half the scenes are not viewable in The Unending Journey. Which is rather shocking honestly, like the scene where you first meet the Blades isn't even in there or the scene where we return to camp after Misija abducts Mikoto. It left me at a bit of a loss honestly but then it hit me that it makes a pretty disappointing metaphor for Save the Queen as a whole; it feels like large portions of the story that could give better context and flow are just missing... So instead we have this situation where events feel forced for the sake of adding stakes at the expensive of characters we never got to really know beyond a few paragraphs from drops a player could feasibly never see much less read.

Honestly, Save the Queen is perhaps the first story in the game where I want a do over. Not to change the ending or nullify the losses experienced, but to just give the story the breathing room it seems in desperate need of. Like, it doesn't lack in gameplay IMO but there just wasn't effort put into making the story fit into that gameplay it feels. We do how many 'go place this thing' quests in Southern Front and Zadnor and next to nothing happens in any of them? Those, to me, looked like golden opportunities for us to maybe see our allies out in the field and interact with them briefly. Heck, Rostik makes a great entrance during the start of Delubrum and in Zadnor he doesn't even show up in any skirmishes! Was he really just sitting at camp polishing his monocle until the climax was ready? Honestly I just desperately want this story to reach the potential I can see it having.

[RavLandslide]

Very late to this conversation, but I just finished, read the fieldnotes and was perplexed at the ending. Has anything else been revealed about/alluded to since Endwalker?

I'd hate for this story to be wrapped up messily, I'm rather fond of most of the characters and I was pretty excited for a potential Dalmasca sequel....

[WhiteArchmage]

We know Matsuno has plans for a 3rd part, involving a liberated Dalmasca, but for whatever reason it hasn't been consolidated into actual plans for the next part.

Well, it might have to do with Matsuno being disenchanted with player blowback at some parts he liked in Return to Ivalice, and general mental health issues post-pandemic. He did mention he'd given his notes to CBU3 so they could make the 3rd part without him, but considering how big a Matsuno fanboy Yoshi-P (and a lot of CBU3, too) is, it's likely they won't dare "step on his toes" to make it without him. So we can just hope for the best.