My feedback on the method of obtaining relics in Endwalker

[Heroman3003]

Personally, I'd like them tied to the new Field Operation. But a fair compromise would be to do it like Bozja where people can choose to do it in the Field Operation or by farming boring old content like Crystal Tower and leves.

I think the difference compared to Bozja should be that it is slightly more efficient to do it in the Field Operation, but if someone is determined enough to do it via old content then they can.

The problem in Bozja was that the drops were RNG whereas doing old content it was guaranteed, which didn't make logical sense if the goal was to make the new content enticing.

Main issue with hard-tying relics to the Expedition zones and progression in them is aparent. It becomes very dead in next expansion. I'd rather have it other way around, relic completely unrelated to expedition zone and progression of it being its own, but expedition zone instead being the optional way to get the relic pieces. That way we won't have another Eureka where content is basically dead in earlier zones, or Bozja where the step thats the worst to do (DR) is also step thats the worst to do outside of it (Horrendously low dropchance from palace, just why).

I’m not sure how people can argue field content isn’t designed for longevity when you can literally go into both field content zones now and be able to do everything in them that you could do in them day 1

Hell both zones are more active than most of the content EW introduced, if field content isn’t an example of content that’s been correctly evergreened that’s not in a roulette I literally cannot think of an example of something that is

Well, if you're lucky with timezone availability and/or are on a particularly populated DC, perhaps. But in time I have available to play, on my DC? Anemos and Pagos are absolutely dead, and BSF is lucky to have more than 4 people present at all.

[Supersnow845]

^its not field content’s fault that DC travel encouraged everyone to go Aether/light/mana but then again I have never struggled to get things done on light, light is busy as hell with field content, if you are struggling that it’s that empty at your time of play I might suggest moving data centres, because if Bozja is empty you can be damn sure monestary, TAPB and any non Alexander raid is also completely empty

The content holds up fantastically well considering it doesn’t have a roulette

[Mithron]

^its not field content’s fault that DC travel encouraged everyone to go Aether/light/mana but then again I have never struggled to get things done on light, light is busy as hell with field content, if you are struggling that it’s that empty at your time of play I might suggest moving data centres, because if Bozja is empty you can be damn sure monestary, TAPB and any non Alexander raid is also completely empty

The content holds up fantastically well considering it doesn’t have a roulette

It is the content's fault because it only exists to serve one purpose and relies on others having the same interest in that purpose, which is to do grinding for old content that's no longer relevant and only exists for glamor. What are you going to do 4+ years from now when even less people have interest in those glamors and not even Aether is populated enough? And that's not even mentioning all the worst things like spawn timers and cryptic information you have to depend on external sources for.

For the vast majority of players, this content was instance hopping asking "Is Penny/etc. up?" and AFK'ng next to the Aetheryte as everyone else did the work then you'd alt tab back in, show up to the FATE and join a party then repeat until you were done. That's not good, and it was even less fun actually doing it the way it was meant to be done.

[Supersnow845]

^i mean you can make the same arguments about any content not on the roulette

The answer to evergreening everything isn’t “roulette or make it soloable”

[Sunhwapark]

Wouldn't care if relic wasn't tied to the exploratory zone for EW & Dawntrail.
The rewards from Eureka were pretty good, housing items, hairstyles, emotes and mounts among other things made it a nice place to farm.

The current method is alright if you hate doing anything more challenging than daily roulettes, I guess.

[Bonoki]

I think the lack of longevity or rather the lack of accessability for Eureka and Bozja is one of the reasons people like those relics. It makes the relics way more special. Anyone can pick up an ARR relic and do it solo, but Eureka and Bozja aren't as easily accomplished. Especially to a brand-new player that needs to rank up. The grind is one of the reasons that Endwalker relics are disliked, but the real matter is that it's not special. Everyone has them, everyone can get them. There is no significant sentimental value behind how you earned it. Anyone can grab it without any meaningful work. So they tend to be dispised. People want to feel like snowflakes and Endwalker relics lack that feeling.

Edit: When you see any ARR - ShB relic you think "Wow that person spent the time and effort to get that" Whereas with EW relic you probably turn a blind eye to that thought. The community loves that feeling of a new sprout walking up to them like "Hey where did you get that?", and you reply with "I earned it from a lot of grinding" and they say back "Oh dang, I don't think I could do that. That's crazy. Congrats on grinding at it." Endwalker relics do not deliver this feeling.

[Gemina]

Let me start off by saying I stated several times how much I disliked Eureka and Bozja, and would rather run Tamtara normal in Duty Finder synced a thousand times than do anything in either of those two areas again. And I still hold to that. I do not like Eureka or Bozja, and I especially don't like how difficult it is to do them when they're not relevant any more and depend on others to participate. I'd rather just solo queue Duty Finder, get 4-24 randoms that are all there from Roulettes, or grind some Fates I can do my self for small progress.

I stated several times how much I prefer being able to do a variety of tasks to accrue progress towards my relic, even if it's small and incremental, so that I may choose the way I grind them. I quite enjoy the ARR and HW relic methods of obtaining, having done several of each, many of which while they were relevant. Mostly because I can do them with a variety of methods, rather than "just Eurkea" or "just Bozja."

So, Endwalker was closer to what I like but still missed the mark on several things. The first, and most obvious, is that 1500 Tomes per "step" is really small. Just a few days of Dailies is enough to fully cover a single relic from beginning to end, and you can do that even faster with things like Hunts or even Crystaline Conflict. I do like all the ways you can get Tomes to cover these so I'm not limited to a dead zone like Eureka, but instead of using Tomes, I think it would've been better to have unique currencies that you obtain much slower doing the same things. This is why steps like the Books, or Atma, or Crystal Sand/Umbrite were all much better. Even after they had their amounts reduced, they're still grindy enough to be long term goals and payoff. And the methods of obtaining them are still viable today without needing external resources like Discord groups or depending on other peoples' interests.

I'll leave the discussion about the aesthetics of the relics in Endwalker to a minimum, but they're mostly pretty terrible especially compared to how good the ARR/HW relics are. There's only a small handful of SB-EW relics I enjoy, and none of them are final stage. So far, most of the best EW relics are the step right before the final. The DRK one in particular is pretty good, because it has two separate glows on it at the same time instead of pulsating between two colors without being a truly abhorrent shape. Well done, I like this one a lot!

So, my main feedback is that no more forced Eureka or Bozja ever again, but also make it harder than just 1500 Tomes per step. Good job on letting us choose our methods of grind, keep that up. The Manderville quests were great and a treat, I enjoyed them in EW almost as much as I enjoyed the other Hildibrand episodes, another good job.

That is my feedback, thank you for no Eureka/Bozja, but make it harder than 1500 Tomes.

I get what you're saying, but what is the difference between this and asking for the relics to cost more of the current currency? For example, lets say you have to spend 10 tomes per something like a coin, or sand. Then you would need to turn in 300 of these to progress the step. All you are really doing is changing the cost of poetics from 1500 to 3000. At the same time, you are also taking up a valuable inventory slot to hold onto the item while you farm them.

A lot of relic steps from the past could essentially be boiled down to this, which made the item and the method of exchange redundant. This is not a good approach to a relic grind. I have to cast aside my indifference to FFXIV relics and try to sympathize with players who want this kind content. However, a major problem I have is that FFXIV is not designed for this kind of content, which is why it fails.

A relic weapon is supposed to be and endgame acquisition, but there is no endgame in FFXIV. There is only current content, and the goal posts are constantly being moved. By the time players get to lv 94 in Dawntrail, they can simply craft or buy a superior weapon, and your previous relic grind is reduced to a glamour option. This is the only way relics truly work in FFXIV, so the weapon designs should really be something special, and honestly they really aren't even that anymore either.

ARR relics are superior to just about anything you can acquire and/or grind for today because these weapons are truly unique down to the their glow. You can tell heart was put into their design and concepts, which is something missing from today's relics. Today's "relics" are all style and zero substance. Worthless.

[Mecia]

The only unique thing about ARR and HW relics was crafting. Being forced into Eureka or Bozja is no different from the rest of the steps besides not braindead content.

[Mithron]

^i mean you can make the same arguments about any content not on the roulette

The answer to evergreening everything isn’t “roulette or make it soloable”

Yeah but the relic, IMO, should always be designed for solo play in mind. I shouldn't need to join a Discord and pray other people actually want their equivalent relics at the same time I do, while also being willing to commit a massive amount of time into dead content on specific roles we need. I can still go back and do ARR and HW relics without any of that, so they should be the gold standard.

I get what you're saying, but what is the difference between this and asking for the relics to cost more of the current currency? For example, lets say you have to spend 10 tomes per something like a coin, or sand. Then you would need to turn in 300 of these to progress the step. All you are really doing is changing the cost of poetics from 1500 to 3000. At the same time, you are also taking up a valuable inventory slot to hold onto the item while you farm them.

The main difference is the acquisition still. The ARR relic books, in particular, are very good because they have you do a variety and set different content like FATES and dungeons per book. So you can't just do whatever is the fastest Tomes, but you actually have to do a specific dungeon. Then in HW, you have to do specific roulettes to get the item. So you can't just stock pile a bunch of Tomes from doing other activities then instantly get a new relic, though currently you can just stockpile these specific items by repeating the daily/weekly quests for years until you're ready to get a new relic. Which I think is still fine because it's a specific activity for a specific purpose, rather than just automatically having enough from doing expert roulette every day like you naturally do otherwise.

I agree the vast majority of relics after HW have had terrible aesthetics. There's a few good exceptions though, like PLD's Recollection, RDM's Recollection, and DRK's step before last in EW.

[Gemina]

The main difference is the acquisition still. The ARR relic books, in particular, are very good because they have you do a variety and set different content like FATES and dungeons per book. So you can't just do whatever is the fastest Tomes, but you actually have to do a specific dungeon. Then in HW, you have to do specific roulettes to get the item. So you can't just stock pile a bunch of Tomes from doing other activities then instantly get a new relic, though currently you can just stockpile these specific items by repeating the daily/weekly quests for years until you're ready to get a new relic. Which I think is still fine because it's a specific activity for a specific purpose, rather than just automatically having enough from doing expert roulette every day like you naturally do otherwise.

ARR books are not a currency you acquire, but they are a good example of how to progress a relic step. The only issue I ever had with the books were the specific FATEs you needed to clear while in possession of the book. Time is precious and no one should have to waste it camping a zone.

Specific roulettes, roulettes in general, and even tomes are all lackluster means to progress relic steps. A relic for the current expansion should have you doing content within that expansion. This is how having a separate currency works as doing things like the current dungeons, 24-man raids, trials, 8-man raids, deep dungeon, etc. can all award this currency upon completion assuming the quest is active. Relics are a poor, uninventive means to keep old content alive, or to incentivize players to run new content like the Variant Dungeons. All of these should be able to remain relevant by their own merit. Using relics in this manner has been disastrous for this dev team in terms of positive feedback.

Anyone who says relic progression in their current form is due to players complaining about everything removes all accountability from the devs, but this doesn't change the fact that a lot of the playerbase are whiney, entitled brats who you can't make happy no matter what you do. When you [try to] cater to these player types the way this dev team constantly does instead of drawing a line in the sand, this is exactly what happens.